{"id":7644,"date":"2010-12-15T19:21:53","date_gmt":"2010-12-16T01:21:53","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.downrange.tv\/blog\/?p=7644"},"modified":"2010-12-15T19:21:53","modified_gmt":"2010-12-16T01:21:53","slug":"florida-school-board-shooting","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.downrange.tv\/blog\/florida-school-board-shooting\/7644\/","title":{"rendered":"Florida School Board Shooting"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"\"<\/a>This morning, after my Sweetie saw the Florida school board shooting for the umpteenth time, she came to me with a very thoughtful, very intelligent question. She also sits on an occasionally contentious local board, and her question was, “What do I need to learn from this event?<\/em>” Hell of a question…such a good question that I decided to throw it out the “Usual Suspects,” a group pf people who are not just my friends, but skilled, thoughtful trainers, many of whom have been there, done that and gotten a big collection of t-shirts.<\/p>\n

I think these responses should be read by everyone, and accordingly, I’m posting them here. I’ll weigh in with my own responses in a different post.<\/p>\n

<\/embed><\/object><\/p>\n

The Usual Suspect include Chris Edwards (Glock), Sammy Reese (American Handgunner), Walt Rauch (Founder, USPSA, IDPA, NTI, author, trainer), Mike Seeklander (U.S. Shooting Academy), Rich Grassi (The Tactical Wire), my friend Larry Johns at the local PD, Steve Comus (Safari Club International), Captain Dave Arnold (Founder, USPSA, LEO trainer), Dave Spaulding (Law Enforcement Trainer of the Year), Dave Biggers (XS Sights), Ed Head (Gunsite, Border Patrol), Chris Weare (Gunsite, LEO trainer), Denny Hanson (SWAT Magazine), Paul Markel (PoliceOne columnist, LEO), John Snow (Outdoor Life), Michael Janich (The Best Defense, Martial Blade Zconcepts), Rob Pincus (The Best Defense, I.C.E. Training), Sheriff Jim Wilson (American Rifleman), GenePearcey (Evil Roy Shooting School) and assorted other miscreants…<\/p>\n

Here are their responses:<\/p>\n

Michael…<\/p>\n

School boards, like other such organizations, can be the focus for high emotions and vindictive actions.\u00a0 The lesson is to stay in Condition Yellow.\u00a0 Where are the exits?\u00a0 Where is the nearest cover?\u00a0 What do you know about body language, especially the body language of upset, or disturbed, individuals?<\/p>\n

These are things that should be second nature for the defensive individual.<\/p>\n

Jim Wilson
\n***************************
\nI heard these comments while watching:<\/p>\n

One comment from an attendee: “I felt helpless when he pulled that gun out”
\nAnother comment: “If we think there will be a problem, we will have security at these meetings, we did not anticipate a problem at this one”<\/p>\n

Key point: \u00a0Unarmed men\/women are “helpless sheep”. \u00a0I am to the point where I might consider ignoring a facility rule to stay armed, and prepared. \u00a0I recommend the same thing to my students. \u00a0I don’t advocate breaking the law…..but I place my own safety (and that of my family) higher on a scale when I need to decide between staying armed or bending a rule.<\/p>\n

Second Key point: We have never been able to, or will ever be able to- rely on security, the police, or mommy and daddy protecting us all the time. \u00a0Self protection in the simplest form is individual for adults, and each of us has to understand that it is up to us, to protect US!<\/p>\n

Until Then, Train Hard!
\nMike Seeklander
\nDirector of Training
\nU.S. Shooting Academy
\n******************************
\nMichael, we should all remember that “bad things happen to good people in nice places” and should act accordingly. Nothing will ever replace awareness, willingness and the ability to respond without hesitation. This said, let me think on this a bit and I will try to say something more profound. Later! Dave Spaulding
\nSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
\n***********************************<\/p>\n

Michael,<\/p>\n

I’m humbled by the esteemed names on this list and I will try to be worthy of\u00a0their company.
\nThe biggest lesson learned from this or similar incidents is that only you can provide for your own safety.\u00a0 Signs and placards announcing this buidling or that facility as a “Gun Free Zone” do nothing more than disarm the good guys and give the bad guys a target rich environment.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Always be armed.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Attached is a piece that I wrote entitled “School Shootings; You can’t sterilize the world.”\u00a0\u00a0 It explains my stance in detail.<\/p>\n

http:\/\/www.policeone.com\/columnists\/posa\/articles\/1204297\/<\/a><\/p>\n

All the best,
\nPaul Markel
\n***********************************************
\nMike,<\/p>\n

The super did a fairly good job of verbalization. Note how he turns, blading his body toward the shooter. It’s a bad idea if you’re wearing armor and have guns, but this guy had pens and a 3-ring binder. For him, it makes a smaller target.<\/p>\n

Ed Head pointed out that it helps to have an incompetent attacker if it can be arranged. That worked here. Round number one was “clutched” dropping the round into the desk top. Immediately, dimbulb drops the muzzle to the floor and contrives to jerk the trigger again. By then, the guard is inside.<\/p>\n

Mike, has her [my Sweetie’s] board considered having a non-uniformed guard inside the hearing room? One or more, depending on the crowd, could be “seeded backup,” like criminal offenders use in armed robberies.<\/p>\n

Finally, the first rule of a gunfight is have a gun. Preferably two, with spare ammo. It’s better to be in a “shooting” than a “gunfight,” but a gunfight would be preferable to getting under the desk and waiting to die.<\/p>\n

Rich Grassi
\n**********************************************
\nMichael,<\/p>\n

A couple of thoughts:<\/p>\n

If you’re going to be in public you should learn to shoot (fight) and always carry.<\/p>\n

An explosive, overwhelmingly violent counter-attack is a good thing.\u00a0 When the brave lady smacked the bad guy’s arm with her purse in an attempt to disarm him, all of the men present should have swarmed the bad guy and beat him senseless.<\/p>\n

I’m told the pistol was a S&W 9mm.\u00a0 I’m betting it was a DA\/SA design and the bad guy was incompetent, as he jerked through his first shot (went low into the desk) then had a N.D. into the floor with his second shot when the trigger re-set to the SA mode.<\/p>\n

Cheers,<\/p>\n

Ed Head
\n*********************************
\nSickened and disheartened, but not surprised, that\u00a0the only person in the room with any “balls” was the lady with the purse.\u00a0 The\u00a0board members, instead\u00a0of using the distraction to rush and\u00a0subdue the\u00a0perp instead\u00a0sit there, apparantly\u00a0comfortable\u00a0with the gunman killing the\u00a0grounded woman.<\/p>\n

Sheep live and die at the whim of the wolves.\u00a0\u00a0 Lesson:\u00a0 Don’t be a sheep.<\/p>\n

Paul M
\n**********************************
\nTo me the most distressing thing in the video, aside from the brave woman armed only with her purse, no one did anything.<\/p>\n

When the gunfire started, the members of the school board went to their knees behind the bench. I realize that few would charge the gunman, and in fact that may not have been the wisest course of action, but at least run instead of hiding behind the bench. If the nut job had had another firearm or reloaded before he was shot, he could have executed the members of the school board while they cowered in fear. This is typical of the \u201cI can\u2019t believe this is happening\u201d mentality, shifting the mental transmission into neutral. The massacre at the Luby\u2019s Cafeteria in Killeen, TX in 1991 comes to mind…<\/p>\n

It would be better to be shot in the back trying to escape, than waiting to be slaughtered. DO SOMETHING!<\/p>\n

—
\nStay low and watch your back,<\/p>\n

Denny
\nwww.swatmag.com
\n*************************************
\nHi Michael
\nChris Weare here. Probably the most expedient thing would be to have an off duty\/on duty officer attend the meetings from now on. I’m not sure where the retired officer who shot the bad guy was at first but at least he was there for the finish. Of course you will get the usual if the board members were armed yada yada infinitum. Nice if they are up to date with their shooting skills and ready to shoot if needed. \u00a0The last being the most important ” the combat mindset”.
\nJust my thoughts use if you want.
\nChris
\n**************************************
\nRich Grassi X ringed this; “Finally, the first rule of a gunfight is have a gun. Preferably two, with spare ammo. It’s better to be in a “shooting” than a “gunfight,” but a gunfight would be preferable to getting under the desk and waiting to die.”
\nNever depend on anyone to defend you. “Disappointed”\u00a0can easily become\u00a0“deceased”.
\nWalt R.<\/p>\n

***************************************
\nThere are very few among us who make a worst-case scenario plan every time they enter a new room, situation or setting. I know I don\u2019t. But if you didn\u2019t have a plan before that guy pulled a gun, you better make one now because it is a very short leap at that point from \u201cnut-job talking\u201d to \u201cworst-case happening.\u201d
\nWhether you\u2019re armed or unarmed the thing that stuck me is that there is abundant opportunity for distraction and action if you keep your head. When the room was being cleared anyone could have pulled a concealed gun and changed the situation. Even a simple swat with the purse took his focus away for several seconds. There was plenty of time to rush him, throw a stapler, run away, conceal yourself behind the desk and crawl toward an exit, whatever.
\nThe only thing that isn\u2019t an option is to sit there and do nothing.
\nI suppose if you were really forward thinking and sat on a public board like that you would get the members together at one of your first meetings and talk for 10 minutes about what you\u2019d do in a situation like that but I don\u2019t know whether any plan you came up with would stick in folks\u2019 minds when the flag goes up.<\/p>\n

John Snow
\n****************************************
\nYou folks are all making totally excellent points. About the only observation I can make, aside from agreeing basically across the board, is to note what the actual root of the situation was as it played out. It goes to HOW people process information, how quickly they process it and then, of course, what they do about it once they have processed it. Certainly the lessons of all offensive\/defensive training is to take the time ahead of time to consider a wide variety of possible scenarios, come up with solutions, etc. That\u2019s a programmed approach.<\/p>\n

As we all know, the real world ain\u2019t always like that. I have long subscribed to the belief that there are basically two kinds of people: predators and grazers. Predators, when pressed, will always do something (usually attack when in doubt). They are simply hard wired that way. Grazers will flee if it occurs to them, or freeze in place until the thought of running comes to mind (they can be paralyzed by sensory overload). And, since school boards tend to be comprised of \u201csocial\u201d types of folks, they also tend to fall into the grazer category. So it shouldn\u2019t be too surprising that they did what they did (or didn\u2019t do what they didn\u2019t do). What public groups need, quite frankly, is some hard-ass training.<\/p>\n

There is a larger picture, of course, which some have alluded to. This was a school board meeting, but major harm coming head-on and at full speed is not unlikely anywhere or anytime throughout the world\u2019s societies these days. Jim mentioned maintaining a yellow condition, which, of course, is good advice. But I suspect that for most of us, who probably are more predator than grazer, basic instincts probably kick in when needed (helped along by whatever preparations we happen to have made along the way).<\/p>\n

For the others, about the best we can do is advise. But what we cannot do to any great degree is trigger the one, single most important thing for the grazers: Force them to be alert and aware of their surroundings at all times. The thing we also cannot do for them is to convert them from linear thinkers to global thinkers. Hence, whatever level they may be able to achieve will always be limited by the speed with which they can process sensory input while going through all of the logical steps to get from Point A to Point Z. Global thinkers have the advantage of being able to skip all kinds of steps when necessary and deliver the ultimate answer instantly by going directly from A to Z. Which, I guess, is just another way of saying that the whole of society needs some good training so that even the linear thinkers can build-in the most advantage they can. Certainly such training would make sense in regular schools for all students, but I doubt it will ever happen because a lot of folks out there would rather surrender preemptively. Whatever, those are just some of my observations.<\/p>\n

Steve Comus
\n***************************************
\nAnd don’t count on sheep.<\/p>\n

Dave Biggers
\nV.P. Sales & Marketing
\nXS Sight Systems, Inc.
\n***************************************
\nSeveral things jumped out at me after watching the video.<\/p>\n

In our society women seem to be the ones with balls not men.\u00a0 The lady with the purse is a great example.<\/p>\n

If you are going to kill a lot of people with a firearm you might want to practice a little first.<\/p>\n

If an authority says you may not have a gun in a certain place that is the exact place you will need it.<\/p>\n

If a person threaten a person’s well being and\u00a0that person or others\u00a0have the means to stop the attack it would be a good plan to do so at the first opportunity.\u00a0Talking my way out would be my second choice if I had a weapon.\u00a0 Shooting this guy at the first sign\u00a0of\u00a0his gun seems the best plan if someone in the room were armed.<\/p>\n

There is no better way to prevent injury to innocent persons by an armed bad guy than armed good guys\u00a0at the scene. \u00a0It is the only thing\u00a0that stands a good chance of succeeding most of the time.<\/p>\n

This was a tough situation for a room full of people with no means of self defense.
\nThe lady with the purse was brave but\u00a0foolish.\u00a0 She could have gotten everyone shot before help could get there.\u00a0 Only one person was close enough and there was a very short window of time.\u00a0Not good odds.<\/p>\n

I think the board members did well in keeping calm and trying to calm the gunman.\u00a0\u00a0 Their best chance of survival was to try to keep things calm and the guy talking until help arrived from someone notified\u00a0by one of the people who got\u00a0to leave the room early which is exactly what happened.\u00a0 The guy who offered himself to let the\u00a0others go is a hero.\u00a0 After the shooting started their best chance was for everyone to run like hell. Many would have survived.<\/p>\n

The best hope\u00a0for all the board members would have been for one or more citizens to have been armed including a board member or two.<\/p>\n

The argument for armed guards is without merit.\u00a0 They can’t be at every possible situation and if they were they would be the first to get\u00a0shot.\u00a0 As an example bank guards are not very effective.<\/p>\n

Also it makes you think about your choice of a defensive firearm.\u00a0 It would have been difficult for anyone to get much\u00a0closer than 10 to 20 feet to the gunman.\u00a0 Aimed shots from a serious caliber weapon would have been called for for a quick stop.\u00a0 Not the place for your two shot .22 derringer.\u00a0 Take the same\u00a0situation and add one more bad guy and even a 5 shot revolver looks bad.\u00a0 Add darkness or low light and you have an even more likely situation.\u00a0Now think about what you carry.<\/p>\n

Gene Pearcey aka “Evil Roy”
\n**********************************
\nJohn,<\/p>\n

Good points.\u00a0 I would say that you don’t constantly make specific plans for every activity but what we need to do is to be alert, first and foremost and\u00a0to\u00a0make generalized plans (what if?).\u00a0 You do that by first accepting there may be bad people in the world, you may have to deal with them, and it could happen today, right now.\u00a0 You stay in yellow any time you are not in an entirely secure environment and are thus ready to move quickly into orange and red if need be.<\/p>\n

DVC,<\/p>\n

Ed Head<\/p>\n

Diligentia Vis
\n*************************************
\nThe probability of a school board member being armed is off the scale.\u00a0 They attempted a negotiation for a time and that served as a slight de-escalation of the gunman\u2019s initial hostility.\u00a0 The gunman went from complete control of the situation to letting board members talk.\u00a0 However, they should have realized his refusal to answer them was a negative sign and that the fuse was getting short.<\/p>\n

The attempt at negotiation did allow security to move into a position to respond.\u00a0 I\u2019m sure security was notified by some of the people allowed to leave.\u00a0 If the gunman made the decision to secure the room and retain all of those attending the meeting the alert may have taken much longer to get out.<\/p>\n

Any public meeting can become contentious be it city council or school board.\u00a0 The current economy moves people to desperate actions. \u00a0The responsibility for protection still devolves to the individual, as we have stated for years.\u00a0 If you\u2019re not willing to shoulder the burden yourself you\u00a0 become prey to actions like this case.<\/p>\n

Captain Dave Arnold
\nDirector of Personnel and Training
\nVirginia Peninsula Regional Jail
\n************************************
\nMichael,
\nI have to say my buddies pretty much nailed it. I have two things: First one is I use to do lot of EP (Executive Protection) Work.\u00a0 I stayed away from anyone “famous” or who wanted a body guard because it looked cool. (I’m way to small for the tight tee shirt body guard type job) My handler is a retired DEA guy who got me some really good jobs covering the board of directors at one Fortune 50 company and one was a local hospital board that had a crazy woman elected and she caused all kinds of problems.\u00a0 In my years of working with the higher end clients I made it very clear to them I would be rarely seen and never heard from UNLESS I thought something wasn’t right and I required them to follow my every word.<\/p>\n

Simply, my job was to see potential problems and make sure my client\u00a0 was long gone before it happened. Granted most of my jobs we worked in pairs or or more depending on the venue or movement.\u00a0 We as a team always had plans for every contingency we could think of. We all were in agreement that the guns we carried were to save our lives and those in need of protecting. We are not the secret service guys who wear vests and jump in front of bullets. The pay was good, but not that good.<\/p>\n

I think it was Rich who suggested\u00a0 having plain clothes guys who are armed work the room. The hard part is fining “qualified” people. I’ve run into some crazy ass fuckers who think the one tour in the sandbox makes them qualified to do EP work. Also most retired LE guys are just a guy with a gun. A visible armed force is also a deterrent for potential guys like we saw in the video.<\/p>\n

My second thought was this. What if every member of the board and those in attendance were lawfully carrying concealed weapons…. The nut job made his intentions clear by drawing his gun. The armed citizens respond by drawing their weapons and asking for compliance \u2014 “drop\u00a0 your weapon”.. When he doesn’t and those who believe if they don’t act he will kill or severely injure someone…(in fear for their safety and others) Use their weapons to gain compliance through accurate gunfire…. It might look like a firing squad, but they would all be justified… My question is this, would the “MEDIA” give it proper coverage or would they all be deemed gun crazy folks who shot the poor mentally disturbed ex-con who couldn’t legally possess the firearm in the first place…<\/p>\n

I don’t leave the house with out at least one gun on me at all times.. Most times I have two…Paranoid \u2014 nope… I’m a prepared sheep dog.
\nSammy<\/p>\n

Sammy Reese
\nEditor, FMG Special Editions
\nCarry Options Editor, American Handgunner
\n*********************************************
\nOne other thing this incident highlights is the need for hardcore, practical empty-hand and improvised-weapon skills. Although the woman with the purse was courageous in her efforts, had she applied the same spirIt with better weapons and tactics, she could have been successful. We also need to train to “take the cheap shot” and not fight fair. Grabbing his head from behind, fingers deep in the eyes, while stomping the back of the knee would turn the tables quickly. “Tackling” and “subduing,” as so often quoted in the press, are poor tactics.<\/p>\n

Stay safe,<\/p>\n

Mike Janich
\n*********************************************
\nSomewhere I heard the term “When Then Thinking.” Basically it means the time to act is when the first chance comes into play or when you first think of it. The men saw the female coming, they saw what she was going to do, they had a split second to act when she acted. The closest male may have got shot but it looks like they could have over powered him and saved the rest of their lives.<\/p>\n

Thanks for sending the video, I was going to go in search of it.<\/p>\n

Larry Johns NPD<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This morning, after my Sweetie saw the Florida school board shooting for the umpteenth time, she came to me with a very thoughtful, very intelligent question. She also sits on an occasionally contentious local board, and her question was, “What do I need to learn from this event?” Hell of a question…such a good question […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":7645,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"ngg_post_thumbnail":0,"footnotes":"","_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"categories":[1,13],"tags":[1313],"class_list":["post-7644","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-featured","category-michael-bane","tag-florida-school-board-shooting"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.downrange.tv\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7644","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.downrange.tv\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.downrange.tv\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.downrange.tv\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.downrange.tv\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=7644"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.downrange.tv\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7644\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.downrange.tv\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/7645"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.downrange.tv\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=7644"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.downrange.tv\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=7644"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.downrange.tv\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=7644"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}