Author Topic: Shooting Through Glass.....  (Read 9439 times)

wrc

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Shooting Through Glass.....
« on: February 14, 2009, 11:42:13 am »
1)  I know you have to offset down slightly when shooting at a car's front windshield, but do you have to do the same when shooting out from inside a car to a target outside?

2)  Also, does the glass deflect the bullet much, that hitting the target may be far more difficult?  Considering when shooting from the outside into the vehicle the distance between the glass and the target is small, but the situation is the opposite when shooting a outside target from inside the car.  The glass impact is farther from the target and a deflection might cause more issue with hits if the glass does cause deviation.

3)  Was there any study or tests done on real world effects on bullet path and penetration on various targets?  Like a good many, I would have though the bullet through the front windshield would have caused similar effect as the crowbar through the windshield.  If there is some easy reading on the expectations of shooting into or through various things that would be good to know.  Like most people are expectations are formed from too many years of T.V.

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Shooting Through Glass.....
« on: February 14, 2009, 11:42:13 am »

Rob Pincus

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shooting through glass.....
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 12:08:11 pm »
Yes.

(good answer?)


The bullet's path is generally deflected towards a 90 degree angle from the far side of the glass surface. If the glass is angled up (as it would be if you were shooting out of a windshield towards the front of the car), the bullet path will be deflected up.

I'm sure that a google search would yield some reading material.

Most of the experience that I have dealing with this is in regard to precision rifle shooting through glass (.223 and .308) and, unless the angles are extreme, the deflection is usually less than people expect. Different types of glass and bullet combinations (thickness, strength, surface area, shape, etc) will cause the effects to vary, of course.

-RJP

DonWorsham

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Re: Shooting Through Glass.....
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 01:02:29 pm »
I'm just amazed that you demonstrated shooting through glass from inside a car. There have been other shows that shot into a car. This is a first for broadcast/cable TV!
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2HOW

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Re: Shooting Through Glass.....
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 01:08:14 pm »
Yes you have to shoot low when shooting from in or out a vehicles windshield. All the documentation I have seen says the bullet will be several inches high when exiting and the same when entering. I will say its much easier to shoot in to out the way the safety glass is made.
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Rob Pincus

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Re: Shooting Through Glass.....
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 01:34:14 pm »
Again, the angle of the glass and the initial impact are going to have an effect on the direction of deflection. There is no hard & fast rule like "through glass goes high/left/right/12 degrees, etc...".  This is very much like the discussion we had last month about penetration through drywall... the variable dictate that this is more complicated than most people want it to be.

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2HOW

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Re: Shooting Through Glass.....
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2009, 01:47:56 pm »
I believe the box of truth is a fair and unbiased  authority on many subjects, including this one.
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Thanos

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Re: Shooting Through Glass.....
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2009, 04:27:25 pm »
Of course you realize it seems a little weird to ask about shooting though car glass. Nonetheless, I have often wondered the same thing, I have heard that a 357 can bouce off a windshield if you shoot it straight on. I believe it, but I don't think it will happen all the time and results will vary quite a bit. If I had to avoid one window in a vehicle (Not that I advocate shooting vehicles) it would be the windshield. Two layers of glass and a safety polymer that holds it all together is not my ideal medium to shoot though.

I don't think that I would try shooting through glass from the inside either.

I have always wondered how much damage you could do to the engine with a rifle. Basically, how many bullets into the block before it just won't run anymore.  You know, running engine, lots of bullets, when will it sieze up.

Fuzdaddy

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Re: Shooting Through Glass.....
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2009, 05:37:47 pm »
Good posts! I hope I can get through life without ever having to actually do any of it, but still interesting. I did shoot through a Ford F-150 door with a .40, and that went through like butter.

long762range

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Re: Shooting Through Glass.....
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2009, 06:27:31 pm »
I have shot at balloons in a car through the front windshield in a IDPA match.  One balloon for driver, one for front passenger and one for back passenger.

From 20-25 feet with a 45 there was very little discernable deflection.  If you aimed directly at the balloon it popped.

The thing that amazed me was if you accidently skipped a bullet off of the front hood (aiming low) only God knew where it went.  It skipped over the car without striking the window.   ???
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Rob Pincus

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Re: Shooting Through Glass.....
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2009, 08:05:03 pm »
Quote
I believe the box of truth is a fair and unbiased  authority on many subjects, including this one.

2How, I don't know about the BoT in general, but I agree with you on this point...  I just confirmed that their site DOES NOT support the statement made in your initial post...... the bullet is not going to always go high... it is likely to follow the rule of moving towards a 90 degree angle from the far surface of the glass (high when firing out of a windshield, low when firing into a car through the windshield... as demonstrated in their tests, via the link you provided).


I was correcting this mis-statement:
Quote
.... the bullet will be several inches high when exiting and the same when entering.


Keep in mind that under I.C.E., we always look for the WHY? .... we aren't interested in the "what" alone... so when I see an empirical test as they ran at BoT, there needs to be an follow up question: Why does that happen?  Obviously, in this case, it is because the first contact the round has with the glass is going to "pull" the bullet in the direction of the glass, which initiates a tumble, might cause the bullet to start breaking apart and results in a new direction of travel closer to the 90 degrees from the far side surface....


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Long762,

The hood phenomenon is why we recommend going "around" cover whenever possible as opposed to going over... skips off a flat surface pose a serious and sometimes unpredictable threat.

The likely reason for the lack of significant deflection was the proximity of the target to the glass.... distance magnifies the effect of deviation/deflection, but if the balloon is only one foot from the windshield, there won't be much noticeable effect.

Perhaps that was not what you meant to say.... either way, I just wanted to make sure those coming here for accurate info were not mis-directed.


Thanos,

We've done that too (shot up engines).... and the fact is that is really has a lot to more to do with what is struck than what you fire into the car... much like a human body!  Is a .50 BMG more likely to disable a vehicle? Of course..... but a 9mm round into the radiator could cause enough damage to stop the car eventually as well..... same for a .22 that cuts an important belt or pierces the transmission fluid radiator present on many vehicles.

-RJP