Author Topic: Ranger and Black Talon ammo?  (Read 25861 times)

wisconsin

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Ranger and Black Talon ammo?
« on: September 26, 2008, 04:58:31 pm »
I keep hearing of these type of ammo brands but can't find anyone or any info on them. All I can find at Sportsmans Warehouse or Midway USA is the SXT brand. I'm looking at the 9mm 147 gr. type for my Browning HP . I heard through Browning HP forum that the FBI went with the Ranger Bonded JHP instead of the T-series what ever the hell that means. Any direction or schoolin I can getts would help.
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Ranger and Black Talon ammo?
« on: September 26, 2008, 04:58:31 pm »

ericire12

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Re: Ranger and Black Talon ammo?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2008, 05:05:32 pm »
Black talon isnt available anymore...... Its the evil "Cop Killer" bullet. It was pulled from the market in 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon,_ammunition

Quote
The ammunition was targeted by those opposed to handguns,[5] and the reputation was very different in the public,[6]and eventually the Talons became to be known by the moniker "Cop-Killer" bullets.[7] The hype of the Black Talon ammunition was the black coating on the bullets themselves. There were false rumors that the bullets were armor piercing and could penetrate the Kevlar vests worn by police officers.[8][9]. To further the controversy, some medical personnel claimed that the sharp barb like tips could potentially cause tears in the surgical gloves and hands of the medical workers, exposing them to greater risk of infection, [1] however there are no documented reports of this actually happening.[10]

In 1996 a lawsuit was filed (McCarthy v. Sturm, Ruger and Co., Inc., 916 F.Supp. 366 (S.D.N.Y., 1996) claiming that Olin Corp should be liable for a shooting spree based on the design, manufacture, marketing, and sale of Black Talon ammunition. The claims against Olin were dismissed because it was held that the bullets were not defectively designed.[11]

Winchester bowed to pressure and in 1993 removed the ammunition from public sale for a time,[12] and eventually law enforcement also bowed to the pressure, but at no time(including presently) was it, nor is it, illegal to possess the Black Talon ammunition.
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jnevis

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Re: Ranger and Black Talon ammo?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2008, 06:35:02 pm »
Actually the SXT ammo is an IMPROVED Talon.  I remember hearing about Winchester taking out an ad in some paper, probably the Washington Post or Wall Street Journal, saying it was removing  the Black Talon line from the catalog and replacing it with something BETTER. 

You can still find it out there but you pay a premium.  The Ranger JHP ammo I have gotten over the years looked pretty much like the SXT in a package marked LE only. Didn't seem to shoot any different.
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jumbofrank

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Re: Ranger and Black Talon ammo?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2008, 06:52:42 pm »
SXT WAS the Deep Penetrating Supreme Expanding Talon but not anymore. The "improvement" was getting rid of the talons. Now you can buy the new SXT (Black Talon substitutes) that aren't black and don't have talons. Why bother? I had a case of the real ones and sold them this year for close to 100% profit, which was still a lot less than anyone else was selling them for. If you can still find any they will probably be at least $40 for 20 rounds. BTW the black part of the Black Talons was the Lubalox coating that works the same way as moly coating. It had less friction and gave the bullets higher velocity and therefore more power, and lower pressure too. It was awesome, but they pulled it off the civilian market after a shooting spree on a New York subway in December 1993 mentioned by ericire12. Winchester/Olin ammunition got sued, Ruger got sued for making the pistol, and Ram-Line got sued for making the magazines for it too.
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PegLeg45

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Re: Ranger and Black Talon ammo?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2008, 07:19:42 pm »
Actually the SXT ammo is an IMPROVED Talon.  I remember hearing about Winchester taking out an ad in some paper, probably the Washington Post or Wall Street Journal, saying it was removing  the Black Talon line from the catalog and replacing it with something BETTER. 

You can still find it out there but you pay a premium.  The Ranger JHP ammo I have gotten over the years looked pretty much like the SXT in a package marked LE only. Didn't seem to shoot any different.


Amen...I bought a box at a gun show several years back and paid $45 for a box-o-twenty. Still got 'em too.
Switched to Cor-Bon and never looked back.

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Fatman

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Re: Ranger and Black Talon ammo?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2008, 08:03:05 pm »
SXT WAS the Deep Penetrating Supreme Expanding Talon but not anymore. The "improvement" was getting rid of the talons. Now you can buy the new SXT (Black Talon substitutes) that aren't black and don't have talons. Why bother? I had a case of the real ones and sold them this year for close to 100% profit, which was still a lot less than anyone else was selling them for. If you can still find any they will probably be at least $40 for 20 rounds. BTW the black part of the Black Talons was the Lubalox coating that works the same way as moly coating. It had less friction and gave the bullets higher velocity and therefore more power, and lower pressure too. It was awesome, but they pulled it off the civilian market after a shooting spree on a New York subway in December 1993 mentioned by ericire12. Winchester/Olin ammunition got sued, Ruger got sued for making the pistol, and Ram-Line got sued for making the magazines for it too.

Ranger T is the Leo SXT. Unfortunately, both boxes say SXT. You need to know the rest of the product code to get the T's. T's still have the fangs, SXTs do not, as Frank says. Winchester tries to keep T sales to PD's  only.
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jumbofrank

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Re: Ranger and Black Talon ammo?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2008, 10:22:49 pm »
The improved civilian SXTs I had are declawed like an old house cat. I didn't say HazCat!!! It's like the claws were CLIPPED off. So as far as I can tell, they're Black Talons without the black or the talons. I've seen pictures of the LEO Ranger ammo but never seen it for sale to us regular people. What I saw in a MAGAZINE had the claws but didn't have the black Lubalox coating so it's still not the same as Black Talons. There may be more variations too.

BTW I'm using Cor-Bon ammo in my bedside .45. I have it loaded with Pow'R-Balls but will be buying some short-barrel DPX for it and some other DPX (+P) for one of my of other .45s.
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ericire12

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Re: Ranger and Black Talon ammo?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2008, 10:34:16 pm »




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jumbofrank

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Re: Ranger and Black Talon ammo?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2008, 11:24:24 pm »
Nice pics. Some doctors were whining about how the claws could cut through two pairs of rubber gloves when they pulled bullets out of someone. They were woried about getting diseases. I say quit whining and use forceps like anyone else would.
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ericire12

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Re: Ranger and Black Talon ammo?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2008, 07:17:31 am »
These bullets are not in any way illegal to own or use, but I personally would not use them.

It would not be very difficult for a trial lawyer to use them to sway a jury. I know I would personally hate to be sitting in court and have an attorney going on and on to a jury about how I shot someone with those "evil black bullets", or have a jury go into deliberation and talk about why I was carrying "Cop Killers".

JMHO
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