Author Topic: .458 SOCOM  (Read 1856 times)

Rastus

  • Join the NRA ! Today!
  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4873
  • DRTV Ranger
Re: .458 SOCOM
« Reply #50 on: August 03, 2018, 07:33:51 pm »
I'm thinking those were pretty much "full strength".
<snip>

Sorry, I meant semi-auto not single shot.....
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
-William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)
                                                                                                                               Avoid subjugation, join the NRA!

The Down Range TV Forum

Re: .458 SOCOM
« Reply #50 on: August 03, 2018, 07:33:51 pm »

jumbofrank

  • NRA Benefactor Member
  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6559
  • DRTV Ranger
Re: .458 SOCOM
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2018, 10:28:54 pm »
Why the right side charging handle? Are you a lefty or righty? I think I would have a problem reaching over the top of the scope with my left hand to work it. A left side charging handle would let me keep my right hand on the grip, and the rifle somewhat in firing position.

I can reach over the top of my shotgun to work the bolt left-handed, but it has a MUCH bigger than stock bolt handle that's extended upward, and no scope on it.
THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE
A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher.

alfsauve

  • Semper Vigilantes
  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6095
  • DRTV Ranger
Re: .458 SOCOM
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2018, 09:28:32 am »
Why the right side charging handle? Are you a lefty or righty? I think I would have a problem reaching over the top of the scope with my left hand to work it.

I'm a righty and I like the the charging handle on the right side.  Others like it on their weak side.   I've owned other designed rifles, with right side ejection, that have had charging on the left and some with charging on the right.   I definitely like strong side charging.

Here's my thinking.  JUST MY OPINION.

Rear charging (AR) has the big advantage of being ambidextrous.   It doesn't matter which side the ejection port is on nor which hand you use.  Works the exact same.  And that means you can chose whether to use strong hand (grip/trigger hand) or weak hand (fore end hand) to charge.

It creates a "problem" though or at least a trade off.  First it means nothing can stick up on the stock, like a cheek piece that will interfere with the handle.   The same goes with any rearward sitting scope that would get in the way of gripping the handle.  There are of course workarounds for these problems.  There are movable cheek pieces and extended handles, but it's still a trade off.   It is also pretty much impossible to charge an AR while holding it on your shoulder.   Lastly, I think the handle, when fully extended is a weak link in the AR design.   If you've got to hold the handle back then use the other hand to clear some obstruction there'a risk of bending it. 

I think most all ARs (at least mine) are inherently front heavy and do not balance around the trigger.  Hence holding an AR with the strong(trigger) hand alone is difficult.  I was taught and I think it natural to hold an AR with by the handguard/forend and operate the charging handle with the strong hand.   Placing the butt up against the body or thigh for stability, if needed.

Strong side (right for me) charging handle seems to allow for strong hand charging that  can be accomplished without removing the butt from the shoulder, while at the same time using the weak hand holding the hand guard to keep the rifle firmly against the shoulder.   It means the stock can have an elevated cheek piece and the charging handle (a short stub of metal) is not going to get bent easily.  It's also possible to hold the rifle with the strong hand while the thumb of the strong hand holds the bolt open.  This allows the weak hand to clear any obstruction without the use of the hold-open device.   A useful technique when the clock is running.   No Forward assist is needed for side chargers either.  Makes for a clean looking gun.

The negative with reciprocating side chargers is that 1" stub is flying back and forth with each shot and could hang up on something.  It's also possible to snag it when not firing and cause the gun to be out of battery.  This doesn't have seem to have been a significant problem with the guns that are worshiped like the M1-Garand, nor with the AK.

There are, of course, non-reciprocating side chargers available in both weak side and strong side operation.  While typically reciprocating side chargers are only available on the same side as the ejection port (I'm sure there's an exception.)   Let me repeat that for those who haven't done the research:  There are left side ejection and charging uppers as well as right side ones.

I LOVE the side charger.  Either way, what's really wonderful is that Stoner's basic design is so accommodating.  You can pick side or rear or both charging.  You can pick left or right ejection and charging, you can chose between recip or non-recip.   I'm not sure Stoner foresaw all of this but it's wonderful none the same.
Will work for ammo
USAF MAC 437th MAW SOG 1968-1972

alfsauve

  • Semper Vigilantes
  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6095
  • DRTV Ranger
Re: .458 SOCOM
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2018, 10:07:17 am »
[Back to MY 458..... it is after all about me. ;) ]

I'm so happy.  Oh, so happy.

Did the upgrades/changes and took it to the local indoor range for testing.  Works great.  Shoots great.  Comparing it side by side (in semi-auto mode) with a comparable 5.56mm everyone is right.  The recoil is not that much more.

Here's what I've done.

The Bear Creek side charging upper is NOT cut for 458S.  My mistake.  I could, I know, send it off and have it enlarged, or I could borrow Bane's Dremel and do it myself.  But instead I used it to upgrade one of  my 5.56mms from rear to side charging.   I then ordered  a CMT right side charging upper.   I waited on the BCG until I could test it, which is good because the Bear Creek BCG works with the CMT upper.   

Put a 1-4x24mm Bushnell illuminated scope on it.  This is the one with the quick change lever.   Also, if the battery dies, you can still see the reticle, so you're not totally out of business.   They've been discontinued and I'm glad I have two, one for my tactical 5.56 and one for this hog gun.

I was worried about the magazines but I've tested it with AR Stoner (Midway) and P-Mag20s and they work just fine as is.  No modification.

HOG HAMMER:






Here's my target.  (25yds indoors)  Now understand a couple of shots were used to move the zero some and 5 shots were taken using the 1x.   These were 300gr Hornady JHPs, commercially made.   I picked up some 325gr FTXs and will try some handloads of these.  Even if this gun ONLY group 2MOA, that's more than enough for hogs or deer around here.

1" dots.  I aimed between them because the illuminated circle worked out to just fit between them.



Final configuration.

Anderson Lower with mostly Anderson LPK
Magpul stock
CMT Upper
Bear Creek BCG
Tromix barrel and bolt
GLFA Muzzle Brake Devastator
Aero Precision hand guard
Bushnel 1-4x24mm illum PCL scope


Next up will be big bore range day at the 100yd range.

Will work for ammo
USAF MAC 437th MAW SOG 1968-1972

Timothy

  • Sea Spy
  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9250
  • DRTV Ranger - NRA Life Member
Re: .458 SOCOM
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2018, 04:27:00 pm »
In some things, I like big holes!

Well done, Alf!

jumbofrank

  • NRA Benefactor Member
  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6559
  • DRTV Ranger
Re: .458 SOCOM
« Reply #55 on: August 12, 2018, 05:10:07 pm »
Very nice looking carbine. Besides their Side Charger Billet Upper, CMT Tactical also has .458 SOCOM Compatible uppers for use with a forward assist and dust cover, or with neither. The side charger was made to be used with a Young MFG National Match right side charged BCG. It's a good thing the Bear Creek Arsenal BCG also works in it. It should. BCGs tend to be the same diameter.

I read the reviews for the BCA side charging bolt carrier and BCG on their website. Both reviews of the right side charging BC said they have to use Loctite on the bolt handle after removing it to clean the gun. One review on the left side charging .223/5.56 NATO BCG was nothing but positive. The other one said it has a right handed gas key on it, which wont allow him to remove the cam pin to clean the bolt.

P.S. Is a .458 HAMíR in the works next? ;D
THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE
A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher.

Rastus

  • Join the NRA ! Today!
  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4873
  • DRTV Ranger
Re: .458 SOCOM
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2018, 06:54:03 am »
Looks great.  I'm looking forward to your 100 yard results.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
-William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)
                                                                                                                               Avoid subjugation, join the NRA!

alfsauve

  • Semper Vigilantes
  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6095
  • DRTV Ranger
Re: .458 SOCOM
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2018, 07:53:21 am »
It's a good thing the Bear Creek Arsenal BCG also works in it. It should. BCGs tend to be the same diameter.
..........
P.S. Is a .458 HAMíR in the works next? ;D


All AR15 mil spec BCGs should be the same dimension.  It's the placement and size of the side charging handle that's the concern.  Lucky CMT cuts there upper the same as Bear Creek, because Young's BCGs are very expensive.


IF I build another thumper I might have to go with that new .50 auto rim caliber.  Built on AR10 platform.  Twice the Energy of the 458S.
Will work for ammo
USAF MAC 437th MAW SOG 1968-1972

alfsauve

  • Semper Vigilantes
  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6095
  • DRTV Ranger
Re: .458 SOCOM
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2018, 07:56:35 am »
One major bug with this type of side charger is you can't remove the bolt without first removing the handle.

But I can easily store the appropriate hex key in the stock so it's always possible to remove it in the field. 
Will work for ammo
USAF MAC 437th MAW SOG 1968-1972

alfsauve

  • Semper Vigilantes
  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6095
  • DRTV Ranger
Re: .458 SOCOM
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2018, 08:20:41 am »



AR500. .50 Auto Max

www.bighornarmory.com
Will work for ammo
USAF MAC 437th MAW SOG 1968-1972