Author Topic: Let the fight begin !  (Read 14454 times)

tombogan03884

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Let the fight begin !
« on: September 21, 2014, 12:29:37 PM »
http://www.tpnn.com/2014/09/20/gregs-guns-the-top-five-combat-rifles-of-all-time/


Every gun-enthusiast has an opinion on the best combat rifles. Countless forums are dedicated to never-ending arguments with one stranger trading barbs with another, offering their perspectives on rifles.
To stir the pot of our readers, TPNN has created a list of the top five combat rifles based upon highly-subjective criteria that is sure to inspire lofty debates between gun buddies. This list is short and does not include many honorable mentions. It also only lists standard-issue rifles; submachine guns and other such weapons are not included and are for another list and another day.

Number 5: The Mosin-Nagant
 
First beginning production in 1891, the Mosin-Nagant has earned a reputation for reliability and affordability with collectors and gun enthusiasts. However, the rifle is as battle-hardened as they come. Made from inexpensive materials, the extra-long bolt-action rifle is super reliable and holds five 7.62x54R rounds. These rounds pack quite a wallop and whether hunting elk or Nazis invading the beloved mother Russia, the Mosin-Nagant is simplicity refined to an art.



Number 4: The M1 Garand
 
Ah, the trusty Garand. To owners of a Garand, the familiar “ping” of a depleted en bloc clip will forever be linked to the World War II-era rifle. Shooting a hefty 30-06 round, the semi-auto Garand takes an 8-round clip and helped win the Second World War and Korea. While incredibly accurate and trustworthy, the Garand loses a point for the difficult nature of reloading that required a bit of finesse if one wanted to avoid the dreaded “Garand thumb”- the product of the bolt slamming down on the user’s thumb if he didn’t get it out of the way in time.
 
 
Z1903
Number 3: The 1903 Springfield
 
While technology has changed and warfare has demanded more from our soldiers than what a bolt-action can provide, the 1903 still remains the gold standard for American infantry rifles. The incredibly-reliable rifles are favorites amongst drill teams, but the real value of the 1903 is the smooth action and the incredible accuracy. In fact, when World War II broke out, they didn’t create a new, fancy sniper rifle- they just slapped a scope on the trusty 1903.
 
 
ZAK
Number 2: The AK-47
 
You knew this was coming, right? While many might argue that the AK-47 is the number one combat rifle ever made (and there is justifiable reasons for such a belief), the trusty AK earns the number two spot simply because it is not as accurate as many combat rifles in use today. Loved by heroes and villains alike all across the world, the AK-47 is cheap, it’s effective and it’s certainly reliable, but for those looking to reach out and touch somebody, the number one rifle is the superior choice…

 
ZM16
Number 1: The M16
 
Okay, many might argue with me. They’ll point out that a dirty M16 (or its civilian counterpart, the AR-15) won’t fire. It’s true. The tolerances of the M16/AR-15 are incredibly tight and cannot permit a massive amount of carbon, dirt, etc, to build up. However, the lesson here is not “don’t use the M16,” but instead, to simply make sure your weapon is clean. High-end sports cars require TLC to make sure they run optimally and so do M16s.
 
The M16 continues to evolve with features like the forward assist and improved click-sights and the user can select semi-auto, full-auto or three-round burst as their preferred method of operation. The 5.56 round has been hated on by those who favor the heftier rounds, but the smaller round is deceptively lethal, going around 3,000 feet per second and tumbling end-over-end after hitting its target, inflicting more damage than simple penetration. Add in 30-round magazines and the jaw-dropping accuracy of the standard-issue rifle and you have the greatest combat rifle that has yet to be invented.

Timothy

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Re: Let the fight begin !
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2014, 03:20:47 PM »
Can't judge! 

I've only fired the M1, 1903 and the M16 (in the military and civilian form).

alfsauve

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Re: Let the fight begin !
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2014, 05:47:15 PM »
As others have commented on this, the 1903 is a knock off of the Mauser, which deserves a place on this list.   

<Stand by for blasphamy>

And while the M16/M4 is a versatile platform, certainly many are deployed, remember we're talking about combat, military usage, not civilian.  I would push it down to 6 and give the FN FAL a place in the top 5.
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ExurbanKevin

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Re: Let the fight begin !
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2014, 08:53:41 PM »
"Best" is a pretty elusive standard by which to judge. Innovative? Sorry, the Mosin and 1903 don't make that list, not by a long shot, but the FG42 does. "Best" isn't "Most Popular" either, because you'd have to add the FAL to that list. Best as a combination of innovation and popularity?

**thoughtful pause**

Mauser, Garand, Stg44, M16, FN-FAL, and I will hear arguments for the Lee-Enfield and AK-47 as well.
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les snyder

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Re: Let the fight begin !
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2014, 10:42:05 PM »
modern fighting rifles need optics... the flat top M4/M16 is designed around an optic... the rest were designed before drill instructors had it beat into their heads they could train a young soldier to fire, and obtain significantly better hit quality in considerably less time with an optic..."hell, I learned to shoot the old fashioned way, yea Sarge, it took you years, not days..."

Sponsor

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Re: Let the fight begin !
« Reply #5 on: Today at 06:10:45 AM »

billt

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Re: Let the fight begin !
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2014, 04:20:59 AM »
I would reverse #1 and #2. The AK-47 is without question the #1 combat rifle of all time. Many U.S. servicemen were killed when their M-16's jammed, while their opponents AK-47's did not. Reasons can be argued, but the outcome can't. In mortal combat, a rifle that works is always better than a more accurate one that doesn't.

Solus

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Re: Let the fight begin !
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2014, 11:58:34 AM »
I would reverse #1 and #2. The AK-47 is without question the #1 combat rifle of all time. Many U.S. servicemen were killed when their M-16's jammed, while their opponents AK-47's did not. Reasons can be argued, but the outcome can't. In mortal combat, a rifle that works is always better than a more accurate one that doesn't.

You are only right.

Reliability and effectiveness are all that matter in a combat rifle and effectiveness doesn't mean a tack driver, it just has to put lethal rounds consistently in a target at, say, out to 300m.

The M16 had reliability problems when it was first introduced and used in combat in Vietnam, but if they have been remedied,  the AK-47 might not be more reliable than the M16 now just because it was in the past.

Cost is the other factor, but any weapon that was "issued" would need to be/have been practical to manufacture in volume.
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tombogan03884

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Re: Let the fight begin !
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2014, 02:16:14 PM »
The M-16's reliability problems were mostly a myth and have not existed at all since the early 70's. in 40 years of shooting the AR platform the ONLY malfunctions I ever saw came from shooting blanks , however, until it is issued in something larger than a varmint caliber it is not worthy of consideration as a serious military arm no matter how long it's in service. That's why the 6mm Lee Navy of the 1890's was eventually dumped.

The only claim to fame of the Mosin Nagant is that it was "good enough", and the Russians made a shit load of them.

As Alf posted, the 03 Springfield was nothing but an illegal copy of the Mauser, that's why after WWI the US had to pay royalties to Germany, (I think they just deducted them from the war reparations).

The M1 was OK but by the 1930's it wasn't particularly special. Germany had used semi auto rifles in WWI, even Mexico had fielded one in 1904

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondrag%C3%B3n_rifle

The AK is another that is nothing but a modification of a previous design that was built in huge numbers.
 
Need to set some requirements to settle on "best". Best what ? most innovative ? most accurate ?

m25operator

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Re: Let the fight begin !
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2014, 02:23:39 PM »
I believe you need to include the theater, in which it will be used. In the jungle I certainly would not want a 556 round to penetrate foliage, bamboo Etc.. but the 762x39 is great. In the euro theatre where you had more open spaces and longer shots, and lots of structure to possibly shoot through, 30/06, 8mm rifles make good sense, of these I like the m1, but had the m14 been available I would have chosen it. THE m14 doubles as a machine gun, not the best, but it does. The fal or fn49 would have been good choices as well.

In the trenches, and buildings, shorter weapons would be preferable to me, the Thompson #1, m4 carbine,  m3, the ak will do double duty here .. but while important not battle rifles.

The 03a3 has significant differences to the Mauser,  single loading direct to the chamber without damaging the extractor,  magazine cut off, and superior sights. Shorter than the standard 98, about the same as a 98k.

Not a big fan of smle's, but, hard hitting, 10 rd mag, carbine length available.

Let's pick a theater, then make choices.


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billt

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Re: Let the fight begin !
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2014, 02:27:15 PM »
Need to set some requirements to settle on "best". Best what ? most innovative ? most accurate ?

If it's a battle rifle, how about most guys it's killed?

 

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