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The Down Range TV Forum  |  Show Section  |  DRTV Videos (Moderator: Marshal Halloway)  |  Topic: 12 Gauge Self-Abuse 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: 12 Gauge Self-Abuse  (Read 8996 times)
Walter45Auto
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2008, 02:41:21 PM »

What kind of buckshot pattern would you get with that thing at 10 or 20 feet?
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jaybet
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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2008, 02:52:16 PM »

What kind of buckshot pattern would you get with that thing at 10 or 20 feet?
Connect -the- dots on a sheet of plywood?
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TAB
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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2008, 03:40:52 PM »

What kind of buckshot pattern would you get with that thing at 10 or 20 feet?


If I had to guess at 10'  <3"s   at 20'  < 6"
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I'd listen to TAB. I mean, he must know his stuff on this subject - his current avatar is obviously successful at stuffing extra ammo in a standard container.
P. Plainsman
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« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2008, 11:42:41 PM »

Great bit.  That's what I call must-see video!  Cool  Even has a storyline: "will MB tough it out until he finally, blessedly runs out of shells?"  Well, he did.

This is exactly the sort of segment I hope we may see on the new cable shows coming in '09 from the Bane media empire.  Can you imagine the coolness of turning on your TV and seeing private ownership of NFA weapons being presented in a normal and positive light?  Shocked  Bring Class III out of the closet!  Open some eyes and some minds.

And in that vein, I will make a suggestion: This segment would have been perfect if it had been preceded by a 60 second spiel where MB breaks it down in plain terms:

* This [holds up Super Shorty] is a National Firearms Act of '34 weapon;

* Bare bones of how the NFA works -- it's different from buying the 'ordinary' [GCA '68] firearms at your local sporting goods store;

* The Super Shorty is classified as an "Any Other Weapon," one of the technical categories of NFA firearms.  Basically, that means you pay a $5 transfer tax but you can transfer transport it across state lines without notifying BATFE.
[no need to go into wonky detail here, but the captions just say "AOW" without any explanation.  This would be baffling to the average viewer.  "A what? Is that the sound you make when you shoot it?  Aow!" Wink]

* Here's a brief summary of the steps I went through to legally acquire this critter.  [Go through special Class III dealer; get CLEO signoff and fingerprint cards; wait for BATFE.]

* Talk to a responsible Class III dealer for more info.

[subtext: if you're patient and you live in one of the right states/counties, you too can get a Super Shorty -- and go in for reconstructive wrist surgery!]

EDIT TO ADD:  I had it backwards above.  It'd make much better TV if you moved the 60 second "about the NFA" spiel to the middle, or even the end of the segment.  First get 'em hooked -- "check out this cool sawed off shotgun!  Let's shoot it!  ... and in a few minutes I'll tell you a bit about the regulations and requirements for private ownership of these beasts."

EDIT AGAIN TO ADD: Fixed per DDMack's comment below.  Thanks!  I did indeed mean "transport."
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DDMack
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« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2008, 04:33:37 AM »

Transfer Transport.

Good idea for a show.

Mac.
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jandbj
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« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2008, 10:58:41 AM »



Knoxx breacher's grip for the AOW, can't add the shoulder stock unluss it's an SBS.

This might just make that little beastie bearable.
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Michael Bane
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« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2008, 12:26:03 PM »

It opens up pretty wide, say 12 inches at 7 yards, but I haven't patterned it with Hornady TAPS yet (just bought a bunch of it).

The Knoxx Breacher Grip is the absolute next accessory! The Knoxx stocks work extremely well. I'm also going to Hans Vang with it...I think with the Knoxx grip and a Vang Comp job (and sights, dammit!) and the little monster becomes a useful tool. The Remington factory breachers come with a Pachmayr rubber grip, which is a little easier on the hands than the hard plastic one on the Serbu. My pal Alan Samuel has the Pach's on his Mossberg Super Shorty, and it is much easier to handle.

You will definitely see more NFA stuff on SHOOTING GALLERY in 2009, and for exactly the reasons outlined in earlier posts. There's nothing evil, wicked, mean and nasty about SBR, SBS, suppressors or the other odd things controlled by the NFS. In fact, IMHO, the 1934 Firearms Act defies even the slightest tinge of logic. It is a law spun out of whole cloth to give a job to the hordes of "revenue agents" left with nothing to do after the repeal of Prohibition.

In all honesty, i do at least understand the urge to control full-auto weapons (but NOT the 1986 ban on the same). The other items lumped into the NFA border on ridiculous...make-work for federal agents and a constant sword of damocles over our heads. In much of the world suppressors — essentially the firearms equivalent of a car's muffler — are considered a courtesy to neighbors (and in some areas even mandated) as opposed to under federal control. Every year police officers have their hearing permanently damaged by touching off AR-15s/M-4s — now standard issue rifles — in enclosed spaces. EVERY POLICE CARBINE SHOULD BE SUPPRESSED! 

Short-barreled rifles with an arbitrary barrel length of less than 16-inches? Both Winchester and Marlin cataloged 14-inch "saddle carbines" in their lever gun lines. Why 16-inch and not 14-inch? And why the whole Byzantine set of definitions? I can legally purchase without paperwork (and in fact have one on order from Chiappa Firearms) a 12-inch barreled, 24-inch overall length 1892 "Mare's Laig" lever gun, because it was built from the ground up as a pistol. I can't put a full-sized stock on it, because that would make it a short-barreled rifle, an NFA controlled item. Technically (as I understand the law) I can't even own an 1892 replacement stock at the same time I own the Mare's Laig unless I have another 1892 Winchester that the replacement stock could conceivably go on, because owning the pieces of an NFA weapon is considered by the G to be the same as owning an assembled weapon. I suggest you read the Supreme Court decision from 1992 regarding Thompson Center's interchangeable parts system:

http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/tc.html

Quote
Justice Souter wrote that "a set of parts that could be used to make nothing but a short-barreled rifle" would, if there is an "aggregation" of such, be a short-barreled rifle.

"Sawed-off" shotguns? Imagine the stupidity of attempting to control a weapon that can be readily made with a hacksaw. An Ithaca 20-gauge Auto & Burglar double-barreled shot pistol is controlled because it is a smoothbore; a .410 gauge Taurus "Judge" 5-shot revolver isn't because the Judge — now one of the most popular self-defense guns in America — has a rifled barrel. Is there a difference? No...of course not. Don't get me started! Short-barreled shotguns are now in widespread use in the military and in law enforcement as breachers and entry guns. The 14-inch barrel is substantially easier to use in a self-defense scenario such as home protection than a barrel in the uncontrolled length of 18 inches.

What would happen if the Federal "controls" on barrel length of rifles and shotguns were lifted tomorrow? NOTHING AT ALL, except we'd all have access to a whole new generation of handy rifles and shotguns. Would such guns be "more concealable" than their long-barreled counterparts? Depends on whether you live in the Real World or not...for a fact, none of such short-barreled rifles or shotguns would be nearly as "concealable" as a 1911, much less a Bond Derringer in .410 (with a rifled barrel!). "More deadly" than a handgun? Hmmmmm...your choice...stand in front of my Super Shorty 12-guage or my Wilson Combat 1911 .45 ACP and tell me which makes you more dead.

What would happen if suppressor technology was suddenly uncontrolled? We'd save millions of dollars used in treating firearm-related hearing loss in shooters (go price a set of digital hearing aids and tell me this is not an issue); police officers would no longer have to worry about forced disability retirement from hearing loss; the "not-in'my-backyard" knee-jerk reaction to shooting ranges because of noise-related issues could be drastically reduced — especially in urban areas — hunters would have a whole new option, especially when hunting near populated areas; young shooters could be introduced to the sport in a safer manner...it would be a total win-win, except that it's not going to happen. Amazing, considering we're talking about technology that can be on par with a quart plastic cola bottle and duct tape.

RANT MODE OFF!

Anyhow, on SG we'll be dealing with how to fill out the paperwork for an NFA gun, what you can expect from the G, etc. I'm also considering putting together a class on the utility of the short-barreled shotgun just for the heck of it.

Whew!

Michael B


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DDMack
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« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2008, 05:52:04 PM »

Michael.
Please make it (utility class) available to those who can't get the OC. DVD or mind meld perhaps.
Stake Out Mac.
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tombogan03884
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« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2008, 08:02:04 PM »

Michael.
Please make it (utility class) available to those who can't get the OC. DVD or mind meld perhaps.
Stake Out Mac.

Put it here on the web ! Grin  I don't even OWN a TV
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TAB
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« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2008, 08:05:20 PM »

Gun control does not have to make sense... it just has to make people beleave that thier goverment is trying to protect them.
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I'd listen to TAB. I mean, he must know his stuff on this subject - his current avatar is obviously successful at stuffing extra ammo in a standard container.
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