This week's Down Range Radio focuses on what should concealed carry holders do when they are “made.” This is an important and controversial issue that anyone who carries a gun needs to hear.
Listen to the DR Radio here:
http://www.downrange.tv/blog/down-range-radio-179/6168/Below you'll find some of Michael's thoughts and opinions triggered by shooting in Vegas. In addition, we'll post comments from well known firearms instructors. Forum members are welcome to join.
Quoting Michael:
This is not a specific evaluation of the actions of either Erik Scott or the Las Vegas PD. Suffice to say that we don't know the whole story and won't know the whole story until it is hammered out in subsequent investigations and in court.
What I AM looking for is as much as possible, given differing laws in differing jurisdictions, is a "standard" set of responses for civilian CCW holders faced with similar situations.
Here are some of my thoughts that came out of that discussion:
• When a legal CCW holder is confronted over a trespass issue, that is, carrying a firearm in a business that does not permit such carry:
1) First and foremost, the "Mike O'Day Rule" is immediately in effect:
"Here lies the grave of Mike O'Day
Who died maintaining his right of way
His right was clear
And his will was strong
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong"
While we are certainly concerned with the rightness and wrongness of our actions and the actions of others, our primary focus is EXACTLY as it is in a violent encounter — to get you and ours out alive. A secondary consideration is to get you and yours and NOT go directly to jail. I think, in fact, that it is prudent to treat an encounter like this as a Condition Red situation, with — as we saw in Las Vegas — a potential to go from zero to lethal very quickly.
2) A person is not obligated by law to provide ID, information or to answer questions from a store employee or paid security personnel. That said, I might strongly suggest that it makes sense to answer questions — nothing will panic a 22-year old pimple-faced former Taco Bell taco roller faster than dead silence — but to do so ambiguously.
"Excuse me, sir...I'm the assistant manager here and, are you carrying a gun?"
[Amiably: "Why, sir, I don't think that's any of your business. Why would you ask me something like that?"
I don't believe that this is the time, the forum or the audience to deliver a lecture on Second Amendment rights. I want to always answer a question with a question to tie up as much of my opponent's "computing power" as possible. I am NOT interested in his/her answers, nor am I even remotely interested in engaging in a "dialog." The "answer a question with a question" is strictly a tactic aimed at ending the Condition Red.
3) Assuming the confrontation escalates from his side, it seems to me that the "best" — best being defined as the most likely strategy to end the confrontation — would be to simple leave the facility in question, but do so from as strong a position as possible:
"You have a gun and we don't allow guns in this store!"
"Oh, is there a sign posted, because you know by law you have to post a sign...had I seen a sign, I wouldn't have shopped here, because I don't do business with companies who don't respect American's rights...where is your sign?"
Admit nothing...again, a civilian is under no obligation to answer questions to non-sworn store personnel. I think at this point (or earlier) the CCW holder needs to access his/her phone, probably with an inform to the employee. "I'm going to get out my phone, because I may need to call the police or my attorney..."
4) If you're asked to leave, leave — the Mike O'Day Rule is in effect! Two points here — be explicit ("Of course I'm leaving, because I will take my business elsewhere...") and IMMEDIATELY ask to speak to management ("Please ask your store manager to meet me outside the front door...I will be calling both the police, because I feel that you are threatening me here, and my attorney...").
5) Follow though...exit the store, speak with the manager, being sure to get the correct spelling of his/or name; if the encounter with the employee was anything but courteous, call the police and report being threatened. I realize this is controversial, but what I'm trying to do here is establish the "good guy called first" situation.
6) If the employee calls security personnel, I am going to have to come down on the side of calling the police immediately, as I am now being threatened and I want my side of the story on tape at police headquarters. Again, if asked to leave I will immediately leave, as per above. If I have purchased or to-be-purchased product, security personnel are welcome to it. However, I will NOT under any circumstances agree to be searched or allow a search of any kind. Nor will I allow myself to be detained...that is called kidnapping. I mention this because it has happened to me. I set off an alarm on the way out of a Best Buy...security personnel stopped me and asked to see my receipt and the purchased product I was carrying, which I readily showed them. He asked for ID, and I said, "What for?" I was then told that I was going to be searched. I began opening up distance and told the security personnel that I did not consent to a search, would not consent to a search and that if I was touched I would consider it an assault and would respond in kind. I was then told I was being "detained" until the police could be summoned. I said, "No thank you...have a nice day" and left. On that occasion I did not call the police...I should have and would if this happened again (although I've never set foot in Best Buy again).
7) On confrontations with the police, I think we're probably on the same page here — DROP THE GUN, if it's in your hand; if it's not in your hand, KEEP YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR AND MAKE NO MOVE TOWARD YOUR HOLSTERED GUN! Do exactly as you're told! If you're taken into custody, ASK FOR YOUR LAWYER and then SHUT UP!
Okay...what do you guys think so far?