Terrorist Attack at Church?

[cjwise5]

So we know that today's war on terrorism is really a religious war.  They hate Christians and whether you consider yourself a christian or not, the muslim terrorists believe that the United States in a Christian nation.  This being the case, has it been discussed that terrorists could target large church gatherings?  The church I attend every sunday in the middle of Iowa in considered a mega church, which really just means that there are 3000 plus people who attend on any given weekend.  Is this a large enough crowd to tempt a terror strike?  I think so.  I am constantly running through scenarios in my head while I'm sitting in church.  Very rarely do churches have any kind of security measures.  There may be greeters at the doors, but it's not likely that they are trained to look for suspicious persons/behaviors. 
Whether you like this or not - I wear my gun to church, and I try to sit on the end of an isle.  Help me think through this a bit...  what are the options, tactics, strategies, etc. if a bad guy comes into the church waving a gun or worse, is wired with explosives.

[tombogan03884]

Seems like you are doing pretty much all you can, you are aware of the possibility, you are aware of your surroundings, and you are prepared to defend yourself and the rest of the congregation.
If the attacker is armed with explosives your screwed, all you can do is get your family and yourself down behind cover and hope God is merciful to you and them.
In the event that some one attacks the Congregation with fire arms, you need to understand and accept in your gut that nothing you do can make such an attack not happen, all you can do is minimize the damage the BG is able to inflict.

[twyacht]

Hello cjwise5, welcome to DRTV, in a "mega" church, 3000+/- folks,....let's run through some scenarios. There have been church shootings by non-muslims also. Disgruntled folks that want to go down in a blaze of gunfire, taking as many victims as they can and than commit suicide.

OK, if you have a shooter in a mega church, and your armed, the possibility is he may be on the second level, over 100 yds from your position. Hardly in pistol range, (standard carry handgun),.... even at 10- 25 yds, how many panicking folks will be scrambling all over the place, not a good time to take a shot either.

So, unless your Jack Bauer, and going to take the "I'm going to end this" in a mega church, (which will be used against you in court), the alternative is a good defense for you and your family.

Sitting by an exit is good. Getting out quickly is good. Not stopping while you call 911 is good.

However, if your in the middle of the "pack" with a better chance of being trampled than getting low at your seat, making quick looks to see where, how far, what's the BG's weapon,, etc,.. will dictate a different response.

Explosives aside, a crazed madman with an AK, 12g, AR, semi auto pistol and (25) 15 rd magazines, hell bent on shooting everyone, there will be a "space" created that will leave the BG vulnerable to a well placed shot. Most just simply "walk" around shooting. Find a defensive position, column of concrete, wall, threshold, and if you can;t escape, defend yourself.

This is a mega church, not a country church with 30-60 members. That would be a different set of circumstances. If a shooter is across the arena, or on a different level in a mega church? I'm getting my family OUT as a first option.

[Walkeraviator]

Agreed.  Exit stategies are the best strategies when in a large area like that.  But keep in mind, terrorists are crazy, not stupid and may cover all exits.  If you have to defend yourself, just be sure what chances you are taking at collateral damage.  

Ive often wondered this as Southeast Christian Church here in Louisville has a Sanctuary that holds over 9,000 people and on Christmas or Easter probably fills to capacity.  Imagine the death toll and the psychological impact of a terrorist strike on this building at teh wrong time.

[Solus]

Perhaps you could speak to your church leaders about a plan where church members provided security.

This was the case when Jeanna Assam stopped a shooter at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs.

Many church officials are aware of the story and the effectiveness of her shooting.

Here is a link to a news report of her heroic action.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14817480/detail.html

[Sponsor]

[bulldog75]

The last two episodes of the Best Defense kind of gave you some of what you need for this scenario.

[tombogan03884]

9,000 people ? I bet that panic, trampling, heart attacks etc. would kill as many or more than the gun man .
I should have mentioned in my 1st post that the best defense is not to be there, get you and your family OUT, as the others mentioned, but I assume that with that many members in a panic that isn't going to happen, all doors will be mobbed by hundreds of basically insane animals all trying to get out at once, in the process creating an ideal target for the shooter.
Consider the option of busting a window and going out that way, otherwise find a position that not only gives some protection from bullets, but the greater danger of the crowd movement. (3,000 members 30 round mag in BG's gun = 1 round for every 100 members, where as the panic is the same as standing in front of a stampede )

[ellis4538]

I would give anything (almost) if our church had 300 in attendance on Sunday!  We wouldn't be able to hold 3000.  Talking with your church leaders (as well as like minded individuals that you might know) is a great idea but in my church we still have the "plastic, invisible, get thru airport security undetected, cop killer bullet" thing in place.  I carry without people knowing and would be harshly criticised if not kicked out for it!  I would be very uncomfortable with 300 in the church because, even that number is a target for someone.  I would always sit near an exit no matter what!  I would also strongly consider CMA first...family included.  I know that sounds bad but I can't help if I go down quick!

FWIW

Richard

[TAB]

Paying attention is the best thing you can do.

Out side of that, I would say sit near a exit that is not used as a main entrance.  For example most churchs have a emergency exits up front on both sides.  I would try to sit near those. 

If a crazy does go into a church to shoot people, chances are those near the entrance, and those near the people leading the survice are the ones that are going to get shot at 1st. 

As was mentioned above, if some one has a bomb or other device( bio, radio active, chemical, etc)  you are pretty much screwed.

[JSC3ATLCSO]

cjwise5

Welcome from a Fellow Eastside Iowan.  Sounds as if you are doing alright for yourself.  Have you approached your church about security?  Would they be open to the idea?  I have friends that attend a very large church over here and they have a security team in place and one of my friends that attends this particular church is the Investigator for the county that I use to work for.  He has been very good about recruiting other officers that attend this church to help with the security.  While it isn't going to stop a Bomb it is going to help with Active shooter situation. 

PM me if you would like some more info on this church if you think it is something that your church would be interested in modeling after.

I know it is a taboo with churches and firearms but when you get that many people together in one spot on a weekly basis it is going to attract the wrong subject at some point.