The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: tombogan03884 on September 19, 2009, 10:43:47 AM
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http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090919/GJNEWS02/709199863/-1/CITIZEN
Brentwood:
By GEOFF CUNNINGHAM Jr.
gcunningham@fosters.com
Saturday, September 19, 2009
Picture
Cynthia Seligowski of Brentwood explains the movements of a mountain lion she believes she spotted on her Middle Road lawn a week ago today.
N.H. Fish and Game officials are looking for hard evidence to confirm a report that one of their staff members spotted a mountain lion in Barnstead, which could go down as only the fifth such sighting of the predator in the past 60 years in the Granite State.
Cynthia Seligowski of Brentwood said she has little doubt such an animal is roaming the area as she is sure she saw one of the big cats sitting on the front lawn of her Middle Road home last Saturday.
"I was sitting in my living room in the rocking chair and out he came. It had the body of a lion. I knew it wasn't a dog [and] his markings were beautiful on his face," Seligowski said.
Seligowski said she did not get a photo of the animal, which remained on the lawn for a few minutes before making its way into the woods just as a police officer arrived.
The Middle Road resident said she is certain it was a mountain lion as the cat appeared the size of a very large dog when she observed it through the pair of binoculars she ran to grab when the animal made a stop in her rural yard.
Fish and Game Department officials say the sightings might be legitimate, as one of their staff members saw what is believed to have been a mountain lion in Barnstead on Friday during a follow-up to a reported sighting.
Fish and Game experts say mountain lions are known to exist in the wild in states no closer than Iowa and Florida. "Survival of this type of animal is typically extremely low as they normally do not have the developed abilities to catch prey on a consistent basis, and/or may have been declawed," said Fish and Game Wildlife Division Chief Steve Weber.
Weber said his department would expect to collect hard evidence of a mountain lion's existence if it did survive through the use of pictures, tracks, scat or DNA evidence.
Fish and Game wildlife experts say mountain lions were pushed out from their range in the Eastern United States by the late 1800s, with the exception of the endangered Florida panther.
"The Fish and Game Department receives numerous reports of mountain lions every year," said Weber. "We still have no documentation to confirm their presence. While we do not believe this is a harbinger of a recovering population ... it does add one more credible report to several others we have received over the years."
Seligowski, an artist who is not particularly thrilled with all the media coverage she has been receiving since her sighting took place, said she has little doubt about what she saw and has already discussed her sighting with Fish and Game. She has since learned other sightings have taken place up and down Route 107.
She said the animal appeared calm and very healthy as it sat on her lawn. She considers herself lucky to have seen one.
NOTE
What they don't mention is that the Me. Fish and Game had 4 that had been hit by cars. People have been reporting sightings for decades and F&G keeps denying their presence.
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Why don't they say something like...
"We probably have a few around. With the way Fish and Game, and hunters have managed and increased deer population it is very likely that the cats are coming back. If they become a nuisance we will have to address the situation, but for right now the population is small and sparse".
That way the people have a 'heads up' and the department gets kudos for it management program.
(I know...I'm expecting common sense from a government agency ::) )
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Why don't they say something like...
"We probably have a few around. With the way Fish and Game, and hunters have managed and increased deer population it is very likely that the cats are coming back. If they become a nuisance we will have to address the situation, but for right now the population is small and sparse".
That way the people have a 'heads up' and the department gets kudos for it management program.
(I know...I'm expecting common sense from a government agency ::) )
Who will probably tell you they don't exist but are protected so if you shoot one to bring them evidence they will put you in jail for killing the mythical beast. ::)
FQ13 who has no desire to shoot a panther but does think longingly of paintball guns when dealing with government types
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I know people who have seen them as far back as the 50's, usually further North than this one, and I KNOW that the Me. F&G had some they had found injured on the side of the road, I SAW those in their "zoo" in Grey Me. Yet they have denied the existence of them.
Of course they also spent decades claiming we had "wild dogs" until genetic testing proved conclusivly that Eastern Coyotes are only distantly related to "dogs".
Another example of how an expert is just some ahole who refuses to admit he might be wrong.
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Who will probably tell you they don't exist but are protected so if you shoot one to bring them evidence they will put you in jail for killing the mythical beast. ::)
FQ13 who has no desire to shoot a panther but does think longingly of paintball guns when dealing with government types
I'd love to shoot a mountain lion up here with a 35 MM canon
(1 "N" is NOT a typo ;D )
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Monster Quest episode ::)
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I know people who have seen them as far back as the 50's, usually further North than this one, and I KNOW that the Me. F&G had some they had found injured on the side of the road, I SAW those in their "zoo" in Grey Me. Yet they have denied the existence of them.
Of course they also spent decades claiming we had "wild dogs" until genetic testing proved conclusivly that Eastern Coyotes are only distantly related to "dogs".
Another example of how an expert is just some ahole who refuses to admit he might be wrong.
Tom, they did have one at the Gray Animal Farm, but it wasn't native to ME. I remember seeing it out there too.
Maine's Big Cats
Maine is home to Canada lynx and bobcats. Rarely seen in the wild, learn about the life-styles of these 2 elusive species of cat . Although a verifiable photograph or video of a mountain lion has yet to be taken, hundreds of reports of cougars are recorded annually with the Department, and several tracks have been found that could be in the range of a small mountain lion or large bobcat. Wildlife biologists are continually on the lookout for these secretive felines, follow up solid reports in the field, and conduct track surveys each winter. All 3 species are on exhibit at the Park.
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MA has had a few reports over the last ten years or so and all of them have turned out to be bobcats. One fella actually snapped a pretty clear picture of the cat and even the news media claimed it was a cougar. The picture clearly showed the pointy upright ears and bobbed tail of a bobcat.
Problem is around these parts that most people can't tell the difference between a fox and a dog or a great dane and a goat! We had a report of a horse killed by a mountain lion right here in Uxbridge a few years ago and it turned out to be a pack of feral dogs. According to the State Wildlife, there has not been a confirmed mountain lion sighting in MA since about 1855...
Regardless, for the sake of safety, I carry the .357 whenever I'm out an about and if a puma, cougar, panther or mountain lion with any other name confronts me as one did in Northern California back in '78....I'm going to kill it deader than shite!
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Since F&G says they don't exist, no one will raise a fuss when you bring in that hide to tan, will they. ;)
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Since F&G says they don't exist, no one will raise a fuss when you bring in that hide to tan, will they. ;)
Nope....and in Maine, any resident while in the wilderness areas can carry a sidearm, openly for personal protection from wildlife encounters. They may have changed it but that's how I interpret the law...
Tom, any help here?
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Me and NH have no limits on Open Carry, in Me. some TOWNS do, but no Game warden will give you any problems.
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more brown things to shoot
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Me and NH have no limits on Open Carry, in Me. some TOWNS do, but no Game warden will give you any problems.
The problem with Maine is that too many west coast liberals decided it is a nice place to vacation. And some of them never leave.
Plus all the libs from NH (not you Tom) and MA influence the state.
Real Mainers are a dying breed. My mother is 90 yrs old this year and I'm the youngest at 56 and she finally got her first great grandchild when my 33 yr old son and his wife had a baby this year. The first baby born into our family in 29 years. My other 2 children 29 and 31 have no kids.
Neither of my sisters, both in their 60's have had grandkids, one of my brother-in-laws has just his father left on his side of the family as he was an only child and he and my sister didn't have any kids so when they die that whole family tree is wiped out.
I know it's happening all over ME, My mother had 13 brothers and sisters and she is the last one left. I have one aunt and uncle on my father's side left in their 90's, they had 2 sons and both their wifes have already died. their daughter didn't have children.
I think true Mainers need to be placed on the Endangered Species List.
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It's happening in NH as well, the last 2 places there was only ONE other "Native" that was born and raised here. There were other natives on First shift, but not on second. We are being over whelmed by Ma. Cn. and NY immagrants who bring their city problems and attitudes with them. >:(
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Problem is around these parts that most people can't tell the difference between a fox and a dog or a great dane and a goat! We had a report of a horse killed by a mountain lion right here in Uxbridge a few years ago and it turned out to be a pack of feral dogs. According to the State Wildlife, there has not been a confirmed mountain lion sighting in MA since about 1855...
Bingo!
About ten years ago on a mule deer hunt we were stopped for a game check. The game warden said a donkey was shot,thinking it was a doe mule deer. :o
The State Wildlife Office should make it public if they have evidence of mountain lions in the area. >:(
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Heard this on the news last week, saw this post, so googled the story. Chicago police also shot and killed a cougar in Aplir of 2008 that was supposedly someones freed pet.
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/cougar.paw.prints.2.1190022.html
Sep 17, 2009 10:10 am US/Central Suspected Cougar Prints Found In Wheaton
Paw Prints Found In Forest PreserveWHEATON, Ill. (STNG) ― Click to enlarge1 of 1
(File Photo)
AP
Results of an examination were inconclusive, but wildlife experts have determined paw prints found in a west suburban creek bed are consistent with a large cat — possibly a medium-sized cougar, police said Thursday.
Wheaton police evidence technicians successfully lifted paw print impressions from a creek bed where the cat was seen Tuesday, according to police. A resident reported seeing a large, black or dark-colored cat in the area.
The castings were taken to Brookfield Zoo, where several experts examined the castings and photographs of the paw prints. Results of the examination, however, were inconclusive, according to a release from police.
The mammal curator ruled out the print being from a canine or fox, saying it was consistent with a large cat, possibly a medium-sized cougar or other exotic cat, the release said.
Tuesday's sighting followed a report last week by a jogger who said she saw a cat bigger than her 60-pound dog in Northside Park, a quarter-mile away. No prints were found there.
Full-grown cougars, which usually weigh more than 100 pounds, leave much larger prints, possibly 5 to to 6 inches across, said Mike Brown, lead keeper for carnivores at Brookfield Zoo. "These weren't even close," he said. The tracks also appeared to be too shallow, he said. "These prints could have been from almost anything."
Wheaton police continue to patrol the area and residents are reminded to supervise children and pets, and not to leave pet food outside.
The DuPage County Forest Preserve police are patrolling the preserves, including Lincoln Marsh. A motorist also reported seeing a large cat on Monday in a preserve near the Warrenville-Naperville border.
In Michigan, officially according to the DNR there are no cougars. A few years back though they did post cougar warning signs in the Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore and have a cougar safety page on their websight.
http://www.nps.gov/slbe/planyourvisit/cougarsafety.htm
Also a few years ago there were reported cougar sightings in Southwest Michigan and a horse was killed supposedly by a cougar. The local animal control agency head had the horses body exumed and examined and determined it was killed by a cougar which is at odds with the DNR report of the incident. Shortly after that incident when comming home from work late one night I saw what looked like a dead cougar on the shoulder of the freeway. I was too far past it to stop and look closer. I looked for it the next day and could not find it. In this area they let the roadkill rot on the side of the road, so I thought it was odd that I didn't find anything.
The area where I deer hunt in Michigan's upper pinnsula (UP) is very remote and wild. Opening day a few years ago there had been a light dusting of snow that had collected in a few low spots along the trail and road and much of it was melting. I saw one large cat track in one of these scattered snow pockets. I searched in an expanding circle out from that one trackand could find no others. I don't know if it was a cougar or not, but it was quite large. In that area wher we hunt we have seen wolves, bear, moose, deer, pine martins, eagles and msny other wild critters.
Along another note the bear population has been growing and expanding in Michigan. Bear sightings have steadily been found futher south every year recently, including the area around Jackson, Michigan, which is quite far South. Bears may have been sighted in Allegan County in Southwest Michigan which is getting close to my area.
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I have friends who live in western Maryland that have had DNR admit to releasing mountain lions in the area to control animal population as well.
I'm OK with it... Just DONT use up all your ammo before leaving the woods! Out of ammo and dragging a deer would be a bad time to meet Mr. Kitty!
Do big cats taste as good as chicken?
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I have friends who live in western Maryland that have had DNR admit to releasing mountain lions in the area to control animal population as well.
I'm OK with it... Just DONT use up all your ammo before leaving the woods! Out of ammo and dragging a deer would be a bad time to meet Mr. Kitty!
Do big cats taste as good as chicken?
According to historical accounts the Mountain Men preferred Cougar meat to anything else.
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DNR has always said we didn't have panthers (mountain lions, cougars, pumas or whatever you may call them in your area).
Well, they've been seen in the woods along the creek 500 yards behind my place off and on for decades. My Great Grandmother warned us about them and so did my Grandmother. My wife and I saw one a few years ago while riding the ATV. My son's girlfriend's father captured a photo of one on his game trail camera this past week on the trail my son has been using to bow hunt (big cat, too!) about 40 miles from us.
In short, don't always believe the DNR.
They also said there were no black bears in south Georgia in a TV interview ....... a week later (I sh!t you not) a black bear was hit by a car two counties away from where the interview took place. A little while after that, one had to be captured by DNR Rangers in a trash dumpster at a local Cracker Barrel restaurant in my town.
I still chuckle about that one.
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DNR has always said we didn't have panthers (mountain lions, cougars, pumas or whatever you may call them in your area).
Well, they've been seen in the woods along the creek 500 yards behind my place off and on for decades. My Great Grandmother warned us about them and so did my Grandmother. My wife and I saw one a few years ago while riding the ATV. My son's girlfriend's father captured a photo of one on his game trail camera this past week on the trail my son has been using to bow hunt (big cat, too!) about 40 miles from us.
In short, don't always believe the DNR.
I would think the Florida Panther would be quite common in your area of South GA. There is nothing to stop the progression north from Florida since they can't probably read a map! ;D
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I would think the Florida Panther would be quite common in your area of South GA. There is nothing to stop the progression north from Florida since they can't probably read a map! ;D
That was what was so funny to me, too. I even asked a ranger that very question and he said there weren't more than 10 or 20 in north Florida, and they didn't roam away from home.
(you just can't make this stuff up......still chuckling at the map reading cats saying to each other, "We can't go over there, that's Georgia.")
;D
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That was what was so funny to me, too. I even asked a ranger that very question and he said there weren't more than 10 or 20 in north Florida, and they didn't roam away from home.
(you just can't make this stuff up......still chuckling at the map reading cats saying to each other, "We can't go over there, that's Georgia.")
;D
If they only knew that it's one or two degrees cooler in South Georgia, maybe they would move north! Silly Cats! ;D ;D
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I'd love to hunt mountain lion. 8) Worked in a customer's house a few times and he had 2 mountain lion skin rugs on the wall. They were beautiful. I think they're still legal to hunt here in TX, but they may have recently changed it.... I haven't been hunting in so long that I haven't checked up on the laws.
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Minnesota DNR loves to deny their exhistance in the state. I loved listening to the main office spin (local guys are realistic) on all the reports in our areas over the years. They got amazingly quiet when confronted with photographs of one wedged under the front axle of a pick up right after filing a very public report that there were no wild or captive, legal or illegal, in our area.
Read the DNR spin on the following story from this morning's paper:
http://www.startribune.com/local/south/59687757.html?elr=KArks:DCiUocOaL_nDaycUiacyKUnciaec8O7EyUr (http://www.startribune.com/local/south/59687757.html?elr=KArks:DCiUocOaL_nDaycUiacyKUnciaec8O7EyUr)
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http://www.startribune.com/local/south/59687757.html?elr=KArks:DCiUocOaL_nDaycUiacyKUnciaec8O7EyUr (http://www.startribune.com/local/south/59687757.html?elr=KArks:DCiUocOaL_nDaycUiacyKUnciaec8O7EyUr)
"It's quite obviouse that this horse is a little crazy and into self mutilation. We'll have it checked out".....................bang.......... "Oh, no! He must have been depressed too, he just committed suicide".
"Sometimes we have aliens pass through here on their way to Venus, but there are NO mountain lions".
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This is from our local paper today........
Mountain lion sightings in foothills
September 22, 2009 05:33:00 PM
By Ben van der Meer/Appeal-Democrat
Two mountain lion attacks on livestock in recent days killed a spate of animals in the foothills east of Marysville, with one mountain lion still on the loose.
According to the state Department of Fish and Game, separate residents in Oregon House reported mountain lions killed their animals first last Friday and then again Tuesday.
In the first report, a resident said a mountain lion killed a pet goat, said department spokesman Kyle Orr.
A Fish and Game warden and state trappers tracked a 95-pound female mountain lion to about 100 yards from where the goat was killed, trapped the lion in a tree and killed it, Orr said.
That was followed by another report Tuesday of a mountain lion that killed five sheep at a residence on Frenchtown Road. The mountain lion did so sometime over the previous four days, Orr said. Two of the sheep were partially buried, he said, indicating the mountain lion planned to eat the kills eventually.
A trapping crew also pursued that mountain lion and found hair but could not pick up a scent, he said.
Officials don't believe the same mountain lion made both kills because the first lion was found so close to where the goat was killed, Orr said.
Residents in the area should take the normal precautions when there's a report of a mountain lion, he said, such as securing livestock, hiking in groups and being alert to one's surroundings.
"Mountain lions are known to take livestock," he said, though he said there's no noticeable trend so far this year suggesting mountain lions are doing so more than normal. "Generally speaking, mountain lion sightings this time of year tend to increase because people are out more."
Mountain lions are sometimes spotted more frequently when they journey out of their normal range because their food or water is in short supply, he said.
Two years ago, students in Challenge spotted a mountain lion as they rode horses to Yuba Feather School, prompting a school lockdown, though the lion ran from the students.
Because the animals generally avoid people, mountain lion attacks on humans are quite rare in California, with only 14 recorded since 1890, Orr said. Six of those attacks were fatal.
The population of mountain lions in California is estimated at 4,000 to 6,000, he said.