The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on July 16, 2009, 08:38:03 AM

Title: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: ericire12 on July 16, 2009, 08:38:03 AM
Worth a read:

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2009/jul/15/cover/
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 16, 2009, 01:09:12 PM
Holy crap ! An UNBIASED article on Open Carry !     :o
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: TAB on July 16, 2009, 03:27:07 PM
Holy crap ! An UNBIASED article on Open Carry !     :o

if you read the artical, you will see that the gun is unloaded.  it has to be that way under CA law, there are hunting, fishing and shooting execptions...

I know a few people that carry that way with a loaded mag in thier pocket...  I personally think its a very, very dumb idea...
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 16, 2009, 03:56:37 PM
if you read the artical, you will see that the gun is unloaded.  it has to be that way under CA law, there are hunting, fishing and shooting execptions...

I know a few people that carry that way with a loaded mag in thier pocket...  I personally think its a very, very dumb idea...

No surprise there, you are known for your disdain of those who would actually take responsibility for THEIR OWN safety.
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: TAB on July 16, 2009, 04:02:20 PM
No surprise there, you are known for your disdain of those who would actually take responsibility for THEIR OWN safety.

so you think its smart to walk down the street, with a unloaded gun on your hip?
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: Kid Shelleen on July 16, 2009, 04:03:11 PM
A great article. I too am surprised to see a positive artice from the San Diego Reader. You don't expect positive media stories about open carry from a state that has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.

TAB is correct that the guns were unloaded, however the gentlemen listed in the article were all said to have ammunition on their belts...perfectly legal.

Unlike TABs obvious distain for these gentlemen (I personally think its a very, very dumb idea...), I have nothing but respect for their principles and for their patriotism. I believe that it was these qualities, demonstrated by the men as they expressed their reasons for open carry, that left the reporter with a positive experience and that ultimately led to a positive article.

Gentlemen, I applaud you!!!
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: ericire12 on July 16, 2009, 04:04:04 PM
so you think its smart to walk down the street, with a unloaded gun on your hip?

No less safe then to walk down the street without a gun...... Its a political demonstration, TAB.
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: TAB on July 16, 2009, 04:07:26 PM
No less safe then to walk down the street without a gun...... Its a political demonstration, TAB.

so would you open carry a unloaded gun?  in a area that is known for crime( and the SD water front is known for both gangs and crimes against the person)

sound like a great way to get your ass beat and your gun taken from you.
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: Kid Shelleen on July 16, 2009, 04:09:36 PM
so would you open carry a unloaded gun?  in a area that is known for crime( and the SD water front is known for both gangs and crimes against the person)

sound like a great way to get your ass beat and your gun taken from you.
Ah, but these men are men of principle who are obviously willing to take such a risk to stand up for what they believe.

I say again, "Gentlemen, I applaud you."
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: TAB on July 16, 2009, 04:11:56 PM
that does not make it a "a smart idea"
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 16, 2009, 04:22:02 PM
 TAB, to post the anti carry things that you do on a pro carry forum you must like being called a dumbass.

so you think its smart to walk down the street, with a unloaded gun on your hip?

If you hd actually READ the article (there's that "reading" thing again ) yuo would know that having a loaded MAGAZINE right with that "empty gun" is also perfectly legal, not optimum but better than anything YOU have come up with.
In another thread you posted You stick up for your rights, I say that's BS, you don't even know what your rights are.
Go backed to your Kool ade and leave the political discussion to the INFORMED readers.
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: TAB on July 16, 2009, 04:38:54 PM
TAB, to post the anti carry things that you do on a pro carry forum you must like being called a dumbass.

If you hd actually READ the article (there's that "reading" thing again ) yuo would know that having a loaded MAGAZINE right with that "empty gun" is also perfectly legal, not optimum but better than anything YOU have come up with.
In another thread you posted You stick up for your rights, I say that's BS, you don't even know what your rights are.
Go backed to your Kool ade and leave the political discussion to the INFORMED readers.


if you read my post, you have have seen that I said it was legal to have a loaded mag in your pocekt.

you did not answer my q...
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 16, 2009, 04:42:54 PM

if you read my post, you have have seen that I said it was legal to have a loaded mag in your pocekt.

you did not answer my q...

TAB, to post the anti carry things that you do on a pro carry forum you must like being called a dumbass.

If you hd actually READ the article (there's that "reading" thing again ) yuo would know that having a loaded MAGAZINE right with that "empty gun" is also perfectly legal, not optimum but better than anything YOU have come up with.
In another thread you posted You stick up for your rights, I say that's BS, you don't even know what your rights are.
Go backed to your Kool ade and leave the political discussion to the INFORMED readers.

What part of that don't you get ?   Are you an idiot ?
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: TAB on July 16, 2009, 04:46:23 PM
yeah, lets see, drawing attention to yourself, vs blending in... sounds like a great idea,  we have lots of professional trainers on this site, why don't you ask them if its a good idea.
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 16, 2009, 04:49:54 PM
Being armed in a less than optimal fashion or not being armed at all ? Yes, lets have the Professionals comment on this.

Certainly answers the idiot question though.
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: twyacht on July 16, 2009, 08:29:46 PM
Good to see the envelope within the law being utilized.

Carrying an unloaded firearm?,... I see the point, but missed the practicality in an SD situation.

After all it's Kalifornia,...

Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: TAB on July 16, 2009, 08:37:43 PM
Good to see the envelope within the law being utilized.

Carrying an unloaded firearm?,... I see the point, but missed the practicality in an SD situation.

After all it's Kalifornia,...



its not a new law, its been around for a very long time.  what has changes in the CA SC finally ruled that a loaded mag no inserted in the gun = unloaded gun.  Before it was a huge gray area.
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: ericire12 on July 17, 2009, 01:50:34 PM
So, here is what I think of all this.....

Like I said earlier, this is simply a form of protest and a way to make a political statement. God bless em, their heart is in the right place, but I completely disagree with their method because I dont see this as effective. I dont think that scaring the ignorant and uninformed is the best way to win friends and influence people. This just simply has too much shock value to be an effective way to educate the masses and to bring new converts to the cause.

I also dont feel that this is the best way to get members of law enforcement on our side of the fight either. It is one thing to do this in a large organized march at a scheduled time and place, but for one person (or a small group of people) to be doing this is only going to cause hysteria, and waste the time and resources of the local police. They are going to have to treat almost all of these encounters as a "Man with a gun" call and respond in numbers and treat it as if they might have a shooter to deal with. Luckily, it seems like the police are fully aware they are going to run into these types of demonstrations. It seems from the article that the local police are handling themselves in a VERY professional manor with these encounters, and thank God are not going in with guns-a-blazing.

Personally, I would not participate in this type of demonstration. It is not going to improve relations with anti-gunners, and it may also put gun folk in bad standings with law enforcement. The bottom line here is that there are many better ways to educate the ignorant and uninformed, and I just really think that this type of act is not going to be beneficial to our cause.






*BTW I also think that they are going overboard when it comes to letting cops inspect their guns to see if they are loaded or not. It in no way is a violation of their constitutional rights. If an officer sees a person with a gun on their hip it is certainly reasonable to think that it might be loaded..... and it definitely gives them probably cause to "search them" and determine if they are carrying a loaded gun.

Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 17, 2009, 01:54:24 PM
"BTW I also think that they are going overboard when it comes to letting cops inspect their guns to see if they are loaded or not. It in no way is a violation of their constitutional rights. If an officer sees a person with a gun on their hip it is certainly reasonable to think that it might be loaded..... and it definitely gives them probably cause to "search them" and determine if they are carrying a loaded gun."

You are wrong on this Eric

http://www.law.emory.edu/law-library/research/ready-reference/us-federal-law-and-documents/historical-documents-constitution-of-the-united-states/amendments-to-the-constitution.html

Amendment IV: Warrants and searches.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

And this HAS been incorporated to the States
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: ericire12 on July 17, 2009, 01:59:37 PM
"BTW I also think that they are going overboard when it comes to letting cops inspect their guns to see if they are loaded or not. It in no way is a violation of their constitutional rights. If an officer sees a person with a gun on their hip it is certainly reasonable to think that it might be loaded..... and it definitely gives them probably cause to "search them" and determine if they are carrying a loaded gun."

You are wrong on this Eric

http://www.law.emory.edu/law-library/research/ready-reference/us-federal-law-and-documents/historical-documents-constitution-of-the-united-states/amendments-to-the-constitution.html

Amendment IV: Warrants and searches.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


It is probable cause...... They are acting in a way that would make a reasonable person believe that they may have a loaded gun (which is a crime there).... thus the officer should take it upon himself to inspect the weapon and see if they are violating the law.

It is just like if a person is in a public place smoking a bong that is filled with tobacco - perfectly legal, but a reasonable person might believe that they were smoking pot in that bong. Thus a police officer would have probable cause to examine the bong and see if it is pot or legal tobacco.
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: Hazcat on July 17, 2009, 02:03:29 PM
E,

This is exactly how other radicals have forced the powers that be to deal with them.  Think about the gays, abortion righters, etc.  MB has mentioned this before.  We NEED to get out there and in peoples faces (politely).
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: ericire12 on July 17, 2009, 02:06:33 PM
E,

This is exactly how other radicals have forced the powers that be to deal with them.  Think about the gays, abortion righters, etc.  MB has mentioned this before.  We NEED to get out there and in peoples faces (politely).

Its not polite..... if you are scaring them to the point that they feel they need to call the police, then it is too brash and over the top....... and it certainly was not an effective encounter.

Shoving it down their throats might work in the short term...... but you have to change minds and win the war of ideas if you are going to win in the long term...... Dont look to the gay pride movement as a template..... If they are being so successful, then why are so many states putting gay pride issues to a vote and officially changing state constitutions? Cramming it down their throats is no way to win the war. 
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: Hazcat on July 17, 2009, 02:10:15 PM
E,

Lots of people scared of dogs so we keep em on a leash.  These guns are holstered and of no threat.  If a pantywaist is 'scared' too bad!  Many people are scared of anyone have the right to carry concealed, you gonna stop carrying to ease their minds?
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: ericire12 on July 17, 2009, 02:12:32 PM
E,

Lots of people scared of dogs so we keep em on a leash.  These guns are holstered and of no threat.  If a pantywaist is 'scared' too bad!  Many people are scared of anyone have the right to carry concealed, you gonna stop carrying to ease their minds?

Angering and scaring people is not going to make them vote pro gun at the next election.


*I'm not saying to stop trying to convince people, I am saying to find a more effective way.
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: tt11758 on July 17, 2009, 04:15:17 PM
Angering and scaring people is not going to make them vote pro gun at the next election.


*I'm not saying to stop trying to convince people, I am saying to find a more effective way.


Any suggestions?
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 17, 2009, 04:40:53 PM
Angering and scaring people is not going to make them vote pro gun at the next election.


*I'm not saying to stop trying to convince people, I am saying to find a more effective way.

The people practicing open carry are not scaring anyone. They are simply excersizing their Constitutional rights as specified under state law. The fear comes from the lies of the anti's and the observers own prejudice, just like locking your car door because you saw a young black man walking down the side walk.
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: tt11758 on July 17, 2009, 04:43:03 PM
The people practicing open carry are not scaring anyone. They are simply excersizing their Constitutional rights as specified under state law. The fear comes from the lies of the anti's and the observers own prejudice, just like locking your car door because you saw a young black man walking down the side walk.


Doesn't that make us a downtrodden minority?
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: TAB on July 17, 2009, 04:46:06 PM

Any suggestions?

education is the best way.

there are 4 basic types of "antis"

1 the ones that have no "hands on exp"( which is most of them)
2 people that have had bad exps with guns
3 people that are afraid of them
4 people that just hate them


2 of the 4 you can change thier minds with education ( 1.3)
1 of the 4 you can atleast bring them back to neutral. (2)
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: tt11758 on July 17, 2009, 04:50:28 PM
education is the best way.

there are 4 basic types of "antis"

1 the ones that have no "hands on exp"( which is most of them)
2 people that have had bad exps with guns
3 people that are afraid of them
4 people that just hate them


2 of the 4 you can change thier minds with education ( 1.3)
1 of the 4 you can atleast bring them back to neutral. (2)



1 of the 4 (4) can be used as targets for the other 3.  ;D




FOR GOODNESS SAKE, THAT WAS A JOKE!!!
Title: Re: A look at open carry in San Diego
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 17, 2009, 04:58:09 PM

Doesn't that make us a downtrodden minority?

Yes, we are being discriminated against under color of the law.
People who exercise their 2A rights are the MOST oppressed segment of society.
 Imagine the uproar if  Blacks could vote only if approved by the FBI.
Or if public writings such as editorials or letters to the editor had to be registered and include the writers address, SSN, and finger prints.
Or how about if walking down the street with a book gave Cops the right to stop you for suspicion of possession of porn.