The Down Range TV Forum

Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: ericire12 on January 16, 2009, 07:52:50 pm

Title: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: ericire12 on January 16, 2009, 07:52:50 pm
TCP Taurus Compact Pistol

http://testdrive.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Story_C/2009+New+Handguns?packedargs=pagenum%3D5

Quote
Billed as the lightest Taurus firearms ever created, the 8.5-ounce 738 TCP (Taurus Compact Pistol) in titanium slide and 10.2-ounce 738 TCP in blue and stainless slide are not only the lightest semi-autos in the Taurus line, they are lighter than any of Taurus’ small frame revolvers too. The TCP offers 6+1 shots of .380 ACP or 8+1 shots with an included extended magazine, durable polymer frame and low-profile fixed sights. Available in blued, stainless or an even more lightweight titanium slide version, the TCP has a short, crisp single action/double action trigger pull. No detail was spared in the creation of the feature-laden model including ambidextrous magazine release, unique fish-scale pattern on the slide for positive pull and functioning and generously sized trigger-guard for quick, intuitive access.


Gaston? Gaston? Oh, Gaston ???
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: Pathfinder on January 16, 2009, 08:22:46 pm
Must be something in the water, everyone - even Sig - is throwing plastic and metal at the .380 cartridges.
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: bjtraz on January 16, 2009, 11:30:17 pm
I would love to get a look at it. See how it compares to others ....................... ???
I'm a fan of Kel Tecs P3AT, & a bigger fan of Taurus, So ............ Who Knows.  ::)
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: twyacht on January 17, 2009, 04:52:25 am
I also have noticed a trend of .380's popularity increasing. I started with a Walther PPK, than the P3AT is hard to beat for size, weight, and CC profile.

Really wanted a Kahr, but it was more than I wanted to spend.

Shame the ammo is as expensive as larger calibers...that's another trend entirely. :-\
Title: UPDATE: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: ericire12 on January 17, 2009, 07:37:04 am
UPDATE: Here is what she looks like....

(http://gunblast.com/images/SHOT2009/Day2/DSC04764.JPG)
(http://www.gunshowreview.com/SHOT_2009/Day_One/images/00-01-15-09-0286.jpg)
http://forum.pafoa.org/pistols-41/45230-taurus-tcp.html
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 17, 2009, 11:37:41 am
The advances in bullet technology that have helped the 9mm become more effective are being applied to the .380 with success since they use the same bullet. These technologies applied to the .32 might help it regain respect and popularity as well now that Ruger has introduced the .327. I had initial doubts about that as proprietary cartridges strike me as presenting availability problems but Charter is now offering their "Patriot" model in .327 and another company (I think it was S&W) also offers a pistol in that caliber. As these pistols become more common there will be more incentive for ammo companies to offer "modern" bullets in this diameter. And we all know that if an effective .327 expanding Bullet is offered some wildcatters will try putting it in everything from .32 short to .32acp.
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: PegLeg45 on January 17, 2009, 11:59:42 am
Neat little guns, very nice. But I'll just stick with my Colt Gov't .380 for deep concealment.


But I wouldn't turn one down if you give it to me.......   ;)

Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: ericire12 on January 17, 2009, 12:55:00 pm
Neat little guns, very nice. But I'll just stick with my Colt Gov't .380 for deep concealment.


But I wouldn't turn one down if you give it to me.......   ;)



See Sig's entry
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: rich642z on January 17, 2009, 10:33:54 pm
With all the .380 pistols coming out,I will just stick to my 3 semi-autos and my revolvers,all 15 of them from .22lr,magto .45 S&W revolvers and Ruger revolvers of the same calibre.  rich642z ::)
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: rojawe on January 18, 2009, 05:24:46 pm
With all these entries in the 380 market the price of 380 ammo has hit the roof. Damn the bad luck :'(
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: TAB on January 18, 2009, 05:43:56 pm
Can some one please explain the whole 380 deal to me...

I mean yeah they are small and light, but a 95 gr bullet going 850 fps( 2 inch barrel) is not what i would call powerfull.

I mean even some of the cowboy loads for 38 spl are more powerful then that.
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: ericire12 on January 18, 2009, 05:48:22 pm
Give .380 a few more years of ammo R&D........ just like 9x19 was anemic in years gone by, and has now become more then adequate for personal defense.
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 18, 2009, 05:50:43 pm
Theory is that most self defense needs are close range, robbery at arms length, that sort of thing. Inside 15 feet you don't need the range of a 9mm if as long as you get the same effect from the bullet. Since they use the same bullet.......
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: TAB on January 18, 2009, 06:00:06 pm
Theory is that most self defense needs are close range, robbery at arms length, that sort of thing. Inside 15 feet you don't need the range of a 9mm if as long as you get the same effect from the bullet. Since they use the same bullet.......


they do not use the same bullet... they max at at 100 grs   most loadings are in the 85-95 range.  where as 9x 19 start at 115 and go to 158


Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 18, 2009, 07:54:31 pm



they do not use the same bullet... they max at at 100 grs   most loadings are in the 85-95 range.  where as 9x 19 start at 115 and go to 158


Lyman lists bullet weights for 9mm 90 grains to 147 Gr.  the majority being 115 to 121 grains. Both calibers use the same cast lead bullet's #356242 92 and 121 grain weights and #356632 100 grain bullet
Regardless the perception remains the same about short engagement ranges, also thats the same speed as the .45 acp, does that mean that the .45 is "not enough gun"?

Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: TAB on January 18, 2009, 08:21:26 pm
I'm not talking about reloading( since very few people actually do it compared to the total number of gun owners) I'm talking about comm'l loads.   

as to the 45 acp only going 850 fps


which would you rather be hit with, a honda accord or a 1 ton truck both going the same speed?

Thats is the comparson between a 90 grainer and 230 grainer.

Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 18, 2009, 08:24:16 pm
Prefer not to get hit by a kid on a bike or a 40 grain .22
PS airsoft pellets sting too ;D
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: runstowin on January 18, 2009, 08:36:29 pm
Here is Buffalo Bore's take on the .380:

27A/20:     100gr. Hard-Cast FN @ 1125 fps  280 ft. lbs     
Item 27B/20:    95 gr. F.M.J.-F.N @ 1125 fps  267 ft. lbs.    
Item 27C/20:    90 gr. Speer Gold Dot J.H.C. @ 1175 fps  276 ft. lbs.


The 380 auto inhabits a valuable and useful place in our society, mostly because of the easily concealable, tiny pistols chambered for it. HOWEVER, because of the very limited size of the cartridge, it is plagued with limited power and therefore most of the existing ammo in 380 auto suffers from not being reliable as a man-stopper. We’ve studied and played with nearly all of the existing available 380 ammo and find it wanting as a reliable means of self defense, especially against a large, insane, drugged up/pain free, determined attacker.

This 380 Auto+P ammo will better all American made 380 Auto ammo by 150 fps to 200 fps in all bullet weights we make. This is a serious improvement in this typically anemic cartridge. This 380 auto+P ammo is more powerful than the typical 38SPL ammo made by most American ammo makers and you’ll get 7 shots of it in a small/flat/light weight 380 versus 5 shots out of a bulkier 38 SPL J frame revolver. Additionally, with the 380 you’ll get much faster reloads and the little magazines are flatter than a speed-loader used for a J frame.
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 18, 2009, 08:42:41 pm
  The failure drill is also recommended for .380, at least by MB.Couple to the chest and the rest to the head until the problem either leaves or drops, or at least stops doing whatever made you shoot it in the first place.
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: TAB on January 18, 2009, 08:52:37 pm
Here is Buffalo Bore's take on the .380:

27A/20:     100gr. Hard-Cast FN @ 1125 fps  280 ft. lbs     
Item 27B/20:    95 gr. F.M.J.-F.N @ 1125 fps  267 ft. lbs.    
Item 27C/20:    90 gr. Speer Gold Dot J.H.C. @ 1175 fps  276 ft. lbs.


The 380 auto inhabits a valuable and useful place in our society, mostly because of the easily concealable, tiny pistols chambered for it. HOWEVER, because of the very limited size of the cartridge, it is plagued with limited power and therefore most of the existing ammo in 380 auto suffers from not being reliable as a man-stopper. We’ve studied and played with nearly all of the existing available 380 ammo and find it wanting as a reliable means of self defense, especially against a large, insane, drugged up/pain free, determined attacker.

This 380 Auto+P ammo will better all American made 380 Auto ammo by 150 fps to 200 fps in all bullet weights we make. This is a serious improvement in this typically anemic cartridge. This 380 auto+P ammo is more powerful than the typical 38SPL ammo made by most American ammo makers and you’ll get 7 shots of it in a small/flat/light weight 380 versus 5 shots out of a bulkier 38 SPL J frame revolver. Additionally, with the 380 you’ll get much faster reloads and the little magazines are flatter than a speed-loader used for a J frame.

if you read blow they got those numbers out of a 3.75" barrel ( they actually test real guns, unlike most manufactors that use test barrels)

out of a keltec  they are  125 fps slower.   Its also +P ammo which makes a huge diffrence.  BB does wonders with thier powders to get thier speeds up and still keep the presure safe.

Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: Pathfinder on January 18, 2009, 08:58:45 pm
Technically, there is no such thing as a .380 +P round, at least according to SAAMI. Unless they changed things in the last 4-6 months, last time I looked.

Hornady also has some new ammo out for the .380 that is supposed to be pretty cool (hot?). Have not even seen it on the store shelves, and the workers in the stores just look at me funny when I ask about it.

UPDATE: Hornady's XTP .380 rounds got 1000fps +/- - not bad for such a little cartridge.
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: ericire12 on January 18, 2009, 08:59:52 pm
No, I think they are just looking at you that way because you are "funny" while you ask about it.  ;D
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: TAB on January 18, 2009, 09:22:52 pm
Technically, there is no such thing as a .380 +P round, at least according to SAAMI. Unless they changed things in the last 4-6 months, last time I looked.

Hornady also has some new ammo out for the .380 that is supposed to be pretty cool (hot?). Have not even seen it on the store shelves, and the workers in the stores just look at me funny when I ask about it.

UPDATE: Hornady's XTP .380 rounds got 1000fps +/- - not bad for such a little cartridge.

BB has had it at 1100+ out of a keltec for long time.
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: Michael Bane on January 18, 2009, 09:27:48 pm
I was talking to John Snow from OUTDOOR LIFE, and we agreed that the rise of the .380 was a relatively weird phenomenon...I have never seen so many .380s in one room than SHOT 2009! The titanium Taurus was amazingly light....you could float it (unloaded) on a helium balloon. Sig reinvented the Colt Mustang...Walther created a .380 in the image of its .22 (I mean, it is not THAT much lighter than the sainted PPK and I swear it's a little bigger)...everybody had a .380 of some sort. Accordingly, .380 ammo development is in hyperdrive. I'm sticking with the Corbon DPXs for now, but I'm keeping my eyes open.

Funny story...one dinner with a bunch of my friends revealed that the Ruger LCP was in most people's (includng my) pocket...amazing penetration of the pocket pistol market!

Michael B (back from the wars)
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 18, 2009, 09:28:36 pm
BB has had it at 1100+ out of a keltec for long time.

Weren't you just posting that they were an anemic 850 fps ?

"I mean yeah they are small and light, but a 95 gr bullet going 850 fps( 2 inch barrel) is not what i would call powerfull."

Come on TAB,
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 18, 2009, 09:31:40 pm
I was talking to John Snow from OUTDOOR LIFE, and we agreed that the rise of the .380 was a relatively weird phenomenon...I have never seen so many .380s in one room than SHOT 2009! The titanium Taurus was amazingly light....you could float it (unloaded) on a helium balloon. Sig reinvented the Colt Mustang...Walther created a .380 in the image of its .22 (I mean, it is not THAT much lighter than the sainted PPK and I swear it's a little bigger)...everybody had a .380 of some sort. Accordingly, .380 ammo development is in hyperdrive. I'm sticking with the Corbon DPXs for now, but I'm keeping my eyes open.

Funny story...one dinner with a bunch of my friends revealed that the Ruger LCP was in most people's (includng my) pocket...amazing penetration of the pocket pistol market!

Michael B (back from the wars)

Welcome back,
With metal prices at the levels they are won't a Titanium anything be prohibitively expensive ? Will they be able to compete price wise with the polymer guns like Kel Tec and Ruger ?
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: wisconsin on January 20, 2009, 05:24:07 pm
Technically, there is no such thing as a .380 +P round, at least according to SAAMI. Unless they changed things in the last 4-6 months, last time I looked.

Hornady also has some new ammo out for the .380 that is supposed to be pretty cool (hot?). Have not even seen it on the store shelves, and the workers in the stores just look at me funny when I ask about it.

UPDATE: Hornady's XTP .380 rounds got 1000fps +/- - not bad for such a little cartridge.
Midway USA has it in thier Jan. flyer on p.25. 380 auto 90 gr. FTX. $18.49 for 25 rds.
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: HAWKFISH on January 20, 2009, 07:23:23 pm
I was talking to John Snow from OUTDOOR LIFE, and we agreed that the rise of the .380 was a relatively weird phenomenon...I have never seen so many .380s in one room than SHOT 2009! The titanium Taurus was amazingly light....you could float it (unloaded) on a helium balloon. Sig reinvented the Colt Mustang...Walther created a .380 in the image of its .22 (I mean, it is not THAT much lighter than the sainted PPK and I swear it's a little bigger)...everybody had a .380 of some sort. Accordingly, .380 ammo development is in hyperdrive. I'm sticking with the Corbon DPXs for now, but I'm keeping my eyes open.
Funny story...one dinner with a bunch of my friends revealed that the Ruger LCP was in most people's (includng my) pocket...amazing penetration of the pocket pistol market!

Michael B (back from the wars)

If you ever get a chance to shoot a box of Remington Golden Saber's .380 Auto.. give it and try and compare it to others in penetration tests.  ;)
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: gunpowdergreg on February 03, 2009, 11:05:41 am
With all the buzz about 380+P ammo is the Kel-Tec P3AT and the newer Ruger LCP, Kahr P380 and Taurus 738 TCP designed to handle the anticipated +P type loadings?
Title: Re: Taurus enters the .380 wars
Post by: CZShooter on February 03, 2009, 12:30:50 pm
Welcome to the forum, gunpowdergreg!

Here's the deal...SAAMI doesn't have a spec for .380 +P ammo. Therefore, the gun manufacturers won't claim their products can handle +P ammo without a definition of what they are going to be held to (the whole liability thing).