The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: TAB on July 31, 2019, 11:01:04 PM
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I am trying too put in a offer on a house in Utah. I told the sellers agent, it's a cash transaction and we could close in as little as 5 business days, my re lawyer will be handling the paper work.( long story short always cheaper then paying comission and they are liable for 100% of the transaction unlike re agents that eat thier commission.) So my lawyer calls the lady up and says he just needs her address so he can over night her the contract. She flat out refused to give it too him saying " we have to use the standard paper work and she could be my agent on the deal.." he then reminds her of her legal responsibilities as the sellers agent and asks for her address again. She proceeds to hang up on him. Looks like I will be adding another lisecnese to my wall of shame. Aka the licenses I have had revoked over the years. It will join the 4 lawyers, 9 re agents and 7 contractors. I don't get it. I am like the easiest transaction ever. You litterely have to do nothing, but show it too your clients and have them sign. You have to do zero paper work out side of your internal stuff. The offer was for 5k then asking.
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People believe they are entitled. Real Estate agents have been really successful in passing laws that provide themselves the welfare many desire....easy money. And people get trapped in believing their subculture rules the world...a psychologically recognized observation.
People pride themselves as being experts far more than they actually are. So when you question them about something in their sphere of influence or their "little world" they take personal affront not realizing their world, i.e. real estate, is a smaller part of a bigger world. That's their subculture which is part of a bigger picture being improperly over extended as controlling the larger culture. So, if someone is good at or believes they are good at what they do and the "outsider" doesn't recognize they are "right" then they take authority to show you they are right and you are wrong. Which doesn't work out when there is something bigger they are a part of that actually controls their sphere of influence.
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I agree with Rastus - the re people have seriously gamed the house-buying/selling business, much like the legal profession.
That said, our agent here when we bought was a dear, put in yeoman duty and really helped us in many ways.
OTOH, our selling agent in KY (my wife's sister) was damn near worthless - she actually did all of the work over the phone as she had moved to NY state (why????) - and actually stuck us with a lesser deal. She had us sign a contingent offer that did not allow us to consider higher offers, which we did receive. So basically we were out the $4-5000 that the higher offers would have brought in, and of course being family we can't (i.e., I'm not allowed to) do anything about her incompetence.
RE agents are right up there with used car salesmen IMHO.
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RE agents are right up there with used car salesmen IMHO.
Fixed it for you.....times have changed.
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Fixed it for you.....times have changed.
yet another group of people I do not deal with. 2 years ago I bought 17 f250s. Bypassed the guy at the door and said I want too talk to the fleet sales .manger. I told him what I wanted, this is how much I am willing to pay. You have 10 mins for a yes or no.
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Yeah, the sales guys hate that....good on you. I bought an F150 last year. I printed out the equipment list to order what I wanted (that blew there mind, that I would want something they did not have on the lot) and told each of the 3 Ford dealers in town whoever was low bid on Thursday got the business on Friday.
I got a really good deal. One of them could not believe it...called me a week later to ask if I was still interested. Another kept calling like I wasn't serious before. The third one knew me from past dealings and got it right the first time.
The power of the bid. It's real once they know you are serious and won't backtrack. Make sure to put maximums in the bid...which you can simply by scrawling it on the bottom of the page with initials.
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Sounds about right. I went to 3 separate dealers, with exactly what I wanted. The last one( which ended up being the closest and the smallest) not only said we can do that, we can have them here in 9 days. Funny thing, that dealer sold another 45 in the next month all from me telling subs/ fellow contractors about my exp. The whole 600k transaction took about 35 mins. I was there 15 mins, went back too work for a couple hours and the fleet guy drove too my office I signed the paper work and all was well. I go thru him for service as well. I cut out all the bs and go right thru him. I know him being on the ball made that dealer ship 100k in 30 days.
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Tab, how's the whole selling the biz thing going?
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Done deal, officially changes hands on 9/1. I still have to finish the year working, and another 2 as a per hour consultant. Lots of flights in Sunday night, flying home Friday evening. We have contracts deep in to next year. They did not buy the business per say, they bought the assets. Businesses are only worth 1-2 years profit + assets.
For the ammount of sales, the profit was actually low, a little more then 4% it was the assets that have drasticly increased in value.
It's going to be hard to get in to an employee mind set.
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I went from quasi management to a grunt on purpose. I never really had too many problems with those I worked WITH! It was the idiots I worked FOR that I had some issues. Now, I can pump gas twenty hours a week and get by on my retirement. I'm done...if I had to work another project for General Electric, I'd shoot myself! LOL
Do what's right, regardless of who's looking or who's in charge! You'll do fine...
When I was a manager in the IT dept of a school district I received a "demerit" on my review because I was getting the job done exceptionally well with staff numbers below what was reported as normal staffing. It said my getting so much from my staff was bad because if I left they would be required to increase staff to get the job done....
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Solus, the last ten or eleven years, those of us on salary were required to do our own reviews, then the management would determine if our opinions of our performance were in line with their's! The system really sucked...
I asked my brother, who worked for GD for 37 years, from entry level engineer (Navy FTB1) to middle management. He said that companies adopted this practice because most people would under rate their own accomplishments thereby giving management a reason to lower the percentage of pay increases and bonuses. Whether that's true is unknown..
Glad to not have to deal with this crap anymore.
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When I was a manager in the IT dept of a school district I received a "demerit" on my review because I was getting the job done exceptionally well with staff numbers below what was reported as normal staffing. It said my getting so much from my staff was bad because if I left they would be required to increase staff to get the job done....
Sounds a out right.
I have a few close friends that always said I should hire some one to replace me. I kept telling them I would need to hire 4 or 5 people to do that. People are always amazed that we just have 3 support staff. 1 payroll/ accounting, 1 office manger/ phones and one " go for". Most similar companies have 5-12. It's because I do the other stuff. When you call any of the phone numbers, my cell rings. No bs you dial the 1800# you have about a 50/50 shot I pick up. I field calls from people looking for a handy man all the way to 10 mill+ calls. It's always funny when they ask to speak to me and I say speaking... The guys that bought the company were that way. I picked up and th3y ask to speak to me using my full legal name. I said " speaking what can I do for you?" Later on in the negotiations I got the, " this man answers his own phone, he is not going to just let the lawyers handle it" from the buyers staff in reguards to one of thier lawyers trying to get us to leave and let the lawyers talk. I just smiled and looked at the lawyers blank faces.. in the end I think I made thier head lawyer age about 5 years in 3 months. I know at 1st they had no idea who they were dealing with, by the .I'd way point they had actually had hired a pi to do a back ground check. I bet they were shocked too see just how much I have been in court.
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TAB, from many post is many threads, I have see you fully support those who work for you...as long as they are worthy. That is the lesson I learned in the Army. If your superior shows he cares about your welfare it generates so much trust and loyalty. Had an officer who wanted to go drinking with me after a days work. The Enlisted Men's Club was closest so his plan was he would wear my E3 field jacket and I would carry his 1st LT field jacket and we would drink in the enlisted men's club.
I had another LT who would see me in the post movie theater and drop his kid in my lap from behind. I worked in Div. G2 and he was the commander of the Div Military Intelligence detachment..who was traditionally assigned as the head of the G2 section. I had a run in a Sgt and got a weekend leave pulled...he resigned his post at the head of the G2 section because he was unable to get my pass reinstalled.
I would follow either of those men into Hell because neither would risk my life unless there was no alternative and they would be there in front of me.
I had more of these exceptional good officers and a load of poor ones...and learned from both.
TAB I have seen from many of your posts...down to looking to teach blind folks to be able to use guns for self defense that you are one of those Good Officers. Keep it up.
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Got a phone call at 8 am on the dot this morning. From the re agents broker. " what can we do to make this right?" "You can make all future contact with my attorney Mr xxx.... thank you, good bye"
I don't like to be an ass hole, but if you want to go that route I can be the biggest ass hole you have ever seen.
I am the nicest guy you will meet and the most predictable. I have clear lines in the sand, I tell you where that line is. You cross it and you will get an approate response.
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Careful Timothy! When I was involved with EMS and Rescue, I was in the ER with a person we brought in. He said something almost identical to that, and our transfer to higher care than the local hospital could provide was changed to a facility that also had a "mental" wing. It was a contract firm from out of the area, but they had been in the area for over a year. We knew the managers and visited with them often. One morning at the cafe for breakfast I asked about the man we helped. Turns out he was put in the psych ward, and in the end he lost his job over it. Not that he really was a threat or unbalanced, but because in a period of extreme pain and injury, after being injured on the job by the actions of others, he expressed himself.
With these proposed red flag laws, this could get you flagged.
A good friend's dad got put on a 72 hour psych hold at an area "nervous hospital" for making a statement in a doctor's office. They had been trying to diagnose his ailment to no effect for months and he was in there one day and said as bad as he was hurting he's be better off dead if they couldn't find the problem. Next thing he knew the sheriff deputies were handcuffing him and stuffing him in a back seat.
He had to spend the night because of the time of day it was, but they figured out the next morning that he wasn't serious and discharged him.
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My great uncle at 87, dieing of colon cancer( that had spread every where), in withdrawal from the methadone he was on for pain, said "he wanted to die" it was over heard by some one. I had to go down to la county sheriff's office to collect his guns. He spent 3 days in la county mental health. All because he said something that not one person here would not have said.
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Society has lost its sense of humor and common sense entirely!
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Society has lost its sense of humor and common sense entirely!
Indeed, suh....indeed.
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Indeed, suh....indeed.
"Suh" was my dad....
;D
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Well it's official, suspended her for 1 year for ethic violation.
Add another to the wall of shame.
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Good job Tab.
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Good job Tab.
Honestly, it did not feel like a good job. More like what a waste of time. It was a simple yes or no type deal... now the re agent is out a job, the broker is eating a multi thousand dollar fine and they are both out my legal bills.
I swear I don't go looking for problems.
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Ran into another gem today.
So the property in question was 7.l arces with a house that is condemned form a fire. Its a total loss, needs to be scraped. Now the cost of doing so is 10-15k. The going rate for the aera is 30k an arce+ value of the improvements. 3 have sold for that price in the last 2 months and 3 empty lots in the last 6 months. Priced all at 29-30.5k per arce+ improvements. So the value of this land should be. 7.1x 30000 -x. Where x is the price of removing thr structure plus a little bit more for the inconvenience. So call x 20k. Thats 193k. So i put in an offer at 190k, figurung5 they say 200k, we split the difference and we meet in thr middle at 195k. Which i am 100% ok with it. Naturally the listing agent says too me " its worth way more than that it has a house on it that for 75k can be made new again..." " i have been a contractor for 15 years and a in construction my whole life, even the foundation had signs of heat damage" "oh, you could fix it up for like 20k if you did all the work yourself "
I swear, i dont go looking for these people.
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Don?t concern yourself with their ignorance.
I had a guy get angry when I said putting a Swarovski scope on an air rifle might be a bit excessive!
He left...
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Those folks are cut from the same cloth that car salesmen are cut from.....the ones that say, "SURE!! That half-ton pick-up with the six cylinder will easily tow that 10,000 lb camper with NO PROBLEMS!!"
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It might could tow it, barely...
Stopping is another issue!
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We are looking for a second house close to us for one of our kids fresh out of college and the wife's parents when she moves on next year.
1st house offered just under asking, I wasn't a fan but the wife and daughter liked it. Seller wanted to started a bidding war so we withdrew the offer.
2nd house, make an offer $5k under asking and it is accepted. We do our inspections and find some issues, about $6k to fix. Ask for an extension on inspection phase as we were still getting estimates and the seller agrees to the extension but says he won't pay more than $1500 towards repairs. Made the offer last night to reflect the $6k (split between the offer and closing costs).
Already looking for another house.
We know it is the top of the market but with the interest rate we can get and having cash sitting in the bank doing little to anything we felt like it would be a good investment. Now I'm thinking we just pay off our house and just wait but I'm surrounded and out numbered.... ::)
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We are looking for a second house close to us for one of our kids fresh out of college and the wife's parents when she moves on next year.
1st house offered just under asking, I wasn't a fan but the wife and daughter liked it. Seller wanted to started a bidding war so we withdrew the offer.
2nd house, make an offer $5k under asking and it is accepted. We do our inspections and find some issues, about $6k to fix. Ask for an extension on inspection phase as we were still getting estimates and the seller agrees to the extension but says he won't pay more than $1500 towards repairs. Made the offer last night to reflect the $6k (split between the offer and closing costs).
Already looking for another house.
We know it is the top of the market but with the interest rate we can get and having cash sitting in the bank doing little to anything we felt like it would be a good investment. Now I'm thinking we just pay off our house and just wait but I'm surrounded and out numbered.... ::)
One yhing i have done and highly recomend others to do is find a decent contractor. Have him walk thr house at the same time as the inspector. Then have him write a letter using the issues found during the inspection line by line with pricing. I always get about 75% of what is ask for. Even paying a few hundred bucks its worth it. I have saved several hundreds of thousands for my custmers
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One thing I have done and highly recommend others to do is find a decent contractor.
And therein is the rub. There are very few "decent" contractors out there. While I know they exist, and ARE worth their weight in gold, they are very hard to find. My wife and I had a house built 2 1/2 years ago. We researched HARD to find a contractor, This one had an A+ rating with both BBB and the local contractor association. We even talked with a couple of his previous customers. Quoted us 5 months to build and it took him over a year to finish and he came in over $100,000.00 over the "estimate". We are still finding things done wrong. He did NOT followup on his crews and some of the work looked like it was done by 9-year-olds. He left us with a very sour taste regarding contractors in general. I know there ARE good ones out there. I just wish we would have found one.
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It seems to be epidemic in the RE industry.
As most here know, my lovely bride and I moved to GA last year, so the RE issues are fresh in our minds.
One, my wife and the RE agent (her sister BTW) were looking at selling the house in KY for about $30k less than what I thought it should sell for. After looking at comps, and after some unnecessarily vigorous discussion, we settled on a listing price that was $10k less than I suggested. It sold in ONE day for asking price. Granted, it was in the primo school districts, and is a lovely house into which we had poured a bit of cash fixing what my wife had called 20 years of differed maintenance.
Here's the kicker - we could have gotten more. The buying agent sent over the contract without a key document that would allow us to consider other offers. Our agent (my SIL) had us sign the contract anyhow, saying it sometimes happened that the paper would follow shortly, especially in this case since the agent was on the road showing houses. In fact, it was ploy by the other agent to prevent us from considering other (i.e., higher) offers - which we did get. Due to her shenanigan's and my SIL's - for lack of a better word - incompetence, I figure we lost $5-8k on the deal.
Two, the house we bought in GA is a lovely 4br 3 bath house, mostly on one floor. The problem is that the listing agent had it down as a 3.5 bath house and we never tumbled to the missing half-bath. No biggie, we got a deal based on comps - the house had been sitting empty for 4 months after the last set of renters had moved out.
HOWEVER, the building inspector, after completing the inspection - a nearly worthless expense based on my previous buying and selling experiences, delivered his report. He missed things like the non-working and never will work gas fireplace, the back steps pulling off the foundation, the rot in the platform holding the a/c condenser, stuff like that. On the good, side though, he did manage somehow to find the missing half-bath - even took a picture of it. Heaven only knows whose half-bath he used, but it sure ain't in this house! Fraud???
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And therein is the rub. There are very few "decent" contractors out there. While I know they exist, and ARE worth their weight in gold, they are very hard to find. My wife and I had a house built 2 1/2 years ago. We researched HARD to find a contractor, This one had an A+ rating with both BBB and the local contractor association. We even talked with a couple of his previous customers. Quoted us 5 months to build and it took him over a year to finish and he came in over $100,000.00 over the "estimate". We are still finding things done wrong. He did NOT followup on his crews and some of the work looked like it was done by 9-year-olds. He left us with a very sour taste regarding contractors in general. I know there ARE good ones out there. I just wish we would have found one.
Just so you know bbb and contractor associations are strickly pay for good ratings. They are for profit companys, not a goverment/ non profit. Not a week goes by i do not get a sales call from one of them asking for money for a higher raiting/ more exposure
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Most home inspectors are a joke, its a 6 week class. I know of 2 that i can recommend. 1 was a high end custom hime builder until he got hit in his Harley coming home from work. He charges about 900 and is on site at least 6 hours. The other is a retired taper. He is about 800 and once again he spends all day.
The reports are often 200+ pages insaid of the 35-50. They both insert the actual cose you violated in thier report. Not just the number, but the actual code. One does it right thier the other in a foot note. I kid you not, either one you would be money a head flying either of thrm out, putting them in a nice hotel amd taking them to eat to get yhier reports. I have seen thousands of inspection reports. These are the only 2 people i have ever seen even close.
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Just so you know bbb and contractor associations are strickly pay for good ratings. They are for profit companys, not a goverment/ non profit. Not a week goes by i do not get a sales call from one of them asking for money for a higher raiting/ more exposure
A lesson learned too late for this country boy!
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A lesson learned too late for this country boy!
dont feel bad most people think they are some consumer watch dog group. I have a d+ rating with them.
1 complaint after i refused to bid a kitchen for lady. 1 complaint after i informed a guy that i could only repair what the insurance adjuster said i could.
Both times they wanted about $600for me to re but the complaint, about 2k to ig ore the complaint and about 3k to give me a+ ratings. I am sure i got the d+ after my lawyer sent them a cease and desist letter. I also noticed that shortly afterward my company info was removed from thier website. I doubt i would have won as thier raitings are per messed up standards, but i was going to make it public.
Angies list, yelp, and several others are ll the same.
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That was an enlightening tidbit Tab.
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dont feel bad most people think they are some consumer watch dog group. I have a d+ rating with them.
Angies list, yelp, and several others are ll the same.
I guess like all else in life the "system" it rigged!! At least it feels that way some times. Thanks for the info.
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Amazon ratings, google searches, too...
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I guess like all else in life the "system" it rigged!! At least it feels that way some times. Thanks for the info.
Its not talked about as money is being made off of them. I know guys that spends 10k+ a year with those groups. They say it brings in many times that in profit. Thise guys also have big crews they like to keep busy. Its marketing, nothing more.
I never have used marketing, never needed too.
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It's not talked about as money is being made off of them. I know guys that spend 10k+ a year with those groups. They say it brings in many times that in profit. These guys also have big crews they like to keep busy. It's marketing, nothing more.
I never have used marketing, never needed too.
May I assume that word of mouth is the best advertising you can get? I live in a more rural area now and firmly believe the further away from an urban area you get the more a man's "word" is treated as a bond. In an urban area, a man's word usually means nothing but the more rural you go the more it can be trusted. Am I just nieve?
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In my experience, getting referrals from the locals AND making those calls to verify is well worth the effort.
My daughter is currently suffering from using friends (fair weather type) to help with their renovation.
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In my experience, getting referrals from the locals AND making those calls to verify is well worth the effort.
My daughter is currently suffering from using friends (fair weather type) to help with their renovation.
No bs, if she needs some help ( as in some one to talk to about it) i can pm you my number and she can call me.
Just tell her this kreepy unemployeed guy, you met online wants to talk yo her. She will be all for it. Or you could her the truth, i k ow this sob, but he knows his stuff and is willing to help.
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No bs, if she needs some help ( as in some one to talk to about it) i can pm you my number and she can call me.
Just tell her this kreepy unemployeed guy, you met online wants to talk yo her. She will be all for it. Or you could her the truth, i k ow this sob, but he knows his stuff and is willing to help.
Ha, ha...
Thanks TAB! Appreciate that...
They?re almost done, lessons learned and not too costly. Just messed with their schedule.
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I run on the "scotty" time table( from star trek) you take however long its going to take and multiply that by 4. That way they think you are a miracle worker or if you run into a big smafu. You are covered.
It feels wired having all this time on my hands. I have about 35 properties on my list to check out. Dealing with that many agents is driving me nuts. When you have a property listed, i expect you to know things like diametions of the lot/ house sqft, school districsts, zoning, hoas... you know basic questions. I dont need exaxt numbers. If a house has 1578 sqft saying about 1600 is fine. Even questions like is it on local utility's or well/ septic is a challenge for them.
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My one experience in home ownership wasn?t positive at first.
Using sisinlaw family agent was my first mistake, using banks recommendation for a home inspection (1991 Inspections were new) created problems.
I?ve got a good background on building, electrical, plumbing, etc...done it all...
It took me seven years to fix what the inspector overlooked!
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My one experience in home ownership wasn?t positive at first.
Using sisinlaw family agent was my first mistake, using banks recommendation for a home inspection (1991 Inspections were new) created problems.
I?ve got a good background on building, electrical, plumbing, etc...done it all...
It took me seven years to fix what the inspector overlooked!
only 7 years, ypu got lucky. The last one i did, for a customer that had a crapy inspector out, they had 7 items, mostly small stuff like expired smoke detectors and missing stickers on gfci protected outlets. I have 4 pages and i did not even go on the roof or in the crawl space.
Dont even get me started on pest inspectors amd ca structral pest control board. What you need to know is they are liable for a max of 5k including all court costs, they do not have to pull permits for structral repairs and do not have to give you a warrenty.
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Another day, another idiot... went to go look at a lot with a custom home on it built about 10 years ago. The re agent walked me around the property. I noticed they had a leak i thier well storege tank, now this was a 2700 gallon tank. ~9' in diameter and about 8' tall, with it being barried i. The ground about 4' so you have this big plastic tank have under ground and half above, with pipes going in and out. Not really a big deal as they are about 3k installed. I mention and point it out to her. " thats not a well storege tank, they are on city water" now this property was down a county road where the closest home was over a mile away. The rest was cattle ranch land spiked here and there with wells and water stations. Lots of barrbed wire. It was also about 25 miles to the closest city...
I swear you can not make this stuff up.
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Yeah, I am not surprised. The real problem though is that they vote.
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And again, found an Einstein.
~9 acres recently sub divided from a larger property...
So i ask the obvious question, was it actually surveyed?
" why would you want to waste money in that? It goes from this fence to that fence."
I am not sure if they are getting dumber or are they making me dumber.
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That was dumb. But they are probably just playing to their normal audience....
I had the place in Arkansas surveyed and I ended up with a strip of land across the road the realtor did not know was mine but which made up 1-1/2 acres of the total property advertised.
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Hell, I had an acre surveyed because it was such a f*#ked up parcel!
Glad I did...it allowed me to clear a lot line and replant something resembling a barrier from my neighbor!
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Ran into another rare bird today...
When i asked questions, she did not bs me, she either said " i dont know, but i will find out for you" or she pulled out one of the many property info sheet she had in a floder she carried with her. She showed up exactly on time, was prepaired by knowing the basic stats of the property, a little bit of its history and the surround area.
After spending about an hour with her, i was sure of one of 2 things.
1 she is new and is trying hard
2 she came from a long line of commercial brokers.
She started 3 months ago and before that grew up in construction. Mainly road way.
Ended up not liking the property, but i invited her for coffee next week as i believe she and i can make some money in the future. She has the mind set that opportunity is often Disguised as hard work and sacrifice. I wont use her as a buying agent as that is not how i roll re lawyer all the way. If i ever decide i want to to invest or play at buying and selling she will be top of thr list. I have taked too at least 75 local re agents this year alone, 1st one that actually did thier job.
Forgrt being component just actually did her job
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Good realtors are indeed rare. My son bought a house a couple of years ago, put some sweat equity into it, per the realtors suggestion and when he got a job that moved him out of the area he went with HER number she told him it would be worth... Still for sale 2 months later.
We close on our rental later this month, the $1500 he was only going to spend turned into the $6K we wanted ;D We had him over a barrel if he wanted to move into his new house on time, you know... contingent upon the sale of our house. 8)
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Looked at another one this morning. Listed by the same company that had the good re agent. I ofc requested her, and got her. I put in an offer, but i doubt they will take it as its 100k less than asking. Whicb is about what it will cost to build a new road in and getting a decent flowing well. The road looked so bad from the street that i didnt even risk it with my 4wd truck.
I hate buying property. Its always a cluster
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More fun today.
Found one i really liked, checks all the boxes, etc etc. Put an offer on it at about 10 am, get a call at ~1 saying they have a better offer. "Can you beat it? " is it a cash offer? "No" " then no i cant." " you are throwing a away a great opportunity" " so did you" *click*
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So bought 9.1 acres today. I went with a re attourney to do the paper work, but the re lady that was so helpful found it. She showed it too me knowing all to well she was not going to get any type of commission, she just wanted to come along to see how i did things... " i always learn something every time ibtalk to you" well little did she know i had 3k in cash waiting for her in the truck when i picked her up to go sign the paper work. Yes, it was not what she could have made, but it put a big smile on her face and i am sure she has been hurting as of late. I made sure explain to her about how cash works * wink* she already knew about that. Like i said smart girl.
Need to stsrt drawing elevations so i can get a plan set.
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OK, where at? I suppose it's out in the boonies where you can shoot....
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About 45 mins ne of town.