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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on January 05, 2017, 10:30:42 AM

Title: Artillery
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 05, 2017, 10:30:42 AM
January has settled in, and that means sloooooooow times at Amigos Foods.  We are heavy into "make work."  My week so far has been one trip where I took an empty trailer to Minneapolis, traded with another driver so he could go home that day while I ran his route.  I will probably do the same for another driver in DesMoines on Friday/Saturday.

This means lots of home time to get in trouble  ;D  This morning I'm watchingTriggers:Change on AHC (American History Channel).

Does anyone realize how easy it is to make a basic cannon or mortar?  I'm tempted to build a scale REPLICA just to see what it's like.  They showed the construction:  Copper tube, wrapped in wrought iron, rolled in leather, and steel bands to hold everything together.  Ammunition is a cloth cartridge containing black powder and 18 lead balls.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 05, 2017, 12:38:20 PM
It used to be a hobby at one of the sheet metal shopsI worked at. Ammo was a juice can full of cement.
 It was all fun and games until some one fired the mortar and took the door handle off my uncles car..
Was still fun and games to every one else, but he got pissy.  LOL
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: crusader rabbit on January 05, 2017, 01:38:06 PM
Back at the dawn of the Iron Age (when I was just a kid) we took a lot of pride in manufacturing cannons in the 9th grade General Metal shop class at the local Junior High. 

Mr. Beatty was the instructor and dedicated to imparting wisdom to any accepting vessel.  He's get so wrapped up in explaining stuff to one or two kids that he overlooked many things the rest of us were doing right there in the fully functioning machine shop. 

His dedication to improving the wisdom of the few allowed those of us less inclined to learn things and more inclined to make stuff essentially free access to the lathes and milling machines without a great deal of oversight. 

None of us lost fingers or eyes, but we did manage to turn any number of cannons--mostly out of 1" round stock.  We'd drill a 1/4" hole through the round stock about 5" from the end, tap it, and run a threaded rod through.  We'd then cut the rod on each side and what remained formed the axis of the fulcrum to raise or lower that which was to become a cannon.  Then we'd drill a 1/4" hole about five inches deep into the round stock to form the barrel.  We'd turn a taper from the barrel tip to the butt and when all that was done, we'd turn a stylish knob at the butt end, drill a touch hole to ignite the powder, and the result was an historically inauthentic but fully functional 6" cannon.

In those days, black powder was available at the local hardware store to anyone with the necessary couple of bucks to buy a one-pound can.  And a one-pound can would propel a huge number of 1/4" ball bearings, one at a time, into imagined enemy forces or into real cardboard boxes.

We may have even made a .22 zip gun or two for personal enjoyment--but I'm not saying.  What I will say is we had great, good fun with those little cannons. 

Some of the guys made carriages in wood shop, complete with wheels and miniature tow rigs, to go with the little cannons.

I have no idea where mine ended up.  I suspect it was discovered by one or both parents and deposited in the trash can.  My parents paid a bit more attention to what their kid was up to than did Mr. Beatty. And they had a better feel for the sort of trouble I could get into.

Hadn't thought about that in years.  Thanks for a stimulating walk through my personal history, Mike.

Crusader Rabbit
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 05, 2017, 02:17:36 PM
Back when pop and beer cans were steel, we would take four of them, and through a combination of cutting out ends or punching with a church key, and judicial use of duct tape, we would end up with a tennis ball cannon.  We were kicked off many parks and play grounds for playing with these, but in 10th grade science a few of us got A's for our demonstration.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: alfsauve on January 05, 2017, 04:01:42 PM
We use to dig holes in the ground.  No worries about your barrel exploding.   Simple system was to put rocks in a tin can, then tape an M80 to the bottom.  Light and drop in hole.    Getting real creative we tried putting an M80 in the middle of the can with a longer fuse.

I'm guessing this is sort of a cross between artillery and infantry, but we use to tape M80s on the end of arrow shafts.

Oh, such fun.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Big Frank on January 05, 2017, 06:16:36 PM
I never tried it but heard about people setting fire to the ball in a tennis ball cannon. You have to soak it in gas or something like that.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Timothy on January 05, 2017, 06:24:33 PM
I never tried it but heard about people setting fire to the ball in a tennis ball cannon. You have to soak it in gas or something like that.

Guilty!

Pop was none to happy when his Zippo ran dry...  we used all his lighter fluid!

I still have that Zippo too!  Pop probably had it during WWII
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 05, 2017, 07:47:04 PM
Quote from: jumbofrank link==32105.msg312680#msg312680 date=1483661796
I never tried it but heard about people setting fire to the ball in a tennis ball cannon. You have to soak it in gas or something like that.

We fueled the tube with cigarette lighter fluid.  We would swirl it down the sides from the muzzle and then swing the tube with the muzzle down.  When we slid the tennis ball in it would wipe the excess fuel off.  At dusk and later the fuzz on the ball would burn for most of the flight.  Soaking the ball would have been a good idea.  Another thought I have had is the match head bombs:  I have read that if you cut the heads off strike anywhere matches and pack a tennis ball full of them, they will explode on impact.  Might want to make sure you are clear at launch in case the pressure of the ignition sets them off.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Timothy on January 05, 2017, 08:14:41 PM
I shot light anywhere matches out of my Crossman pellet gun wrapped in tin foil and a bit of gun powder from .22 ammo...
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 05, 2017, 08:25:12 PM
Aaaaaaaand???
Title: Artillery
Post by: Timothy on January 05, 2017, 08:30:55 PM
Loaded em from the muzzle, pumped the gun and shot em against the brick chimney on the house!

Made a big ol flash bang and again, Pop weren't happy when his squirrel ammo went missing!!

Again, I still have Pappy's squirrel gun!

1903 Savage .22 pump rifle..
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 05, 2017, 08:44:27 PM
I have thought of this for a while, and wondering if any of you warped children have as well:

What about filling an arrow shaft with powder and inserting a primer in the tip insert?
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Timothy on January 05, 2017, 08:50:26 PM
"Miscreants-R-Us" should have an answer!
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Big Frank on January 05, 2017, 10:19:48 PM
I shot light anywhere matches out of my Crossman pellet gun wrapped in tin foil and a bit of gun powder from .22 ammo...

I shot some kind of primers out of my Crosman CO2 revolver. They blew up when they hit the curb. It didn't take a lot to keep me entertained, just something blowing up.  ;D
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Rastus on January 06, 2017, 05:40:51 AM
Loaded em from the muzzle, pumped the gun and shot em against the brick chimney on the house!

Made a big ol flash bang and again, <snip>

Dang I wish I had been that smart.  I am going to have to try that now...
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 06, 2017, 06:32:18 AM
Mikes loaded arrows should work great since they will still be balanced, just heavier.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: PegLeg45 on January 06, 2017, 11:29:25 AM
This is one my son made. He had a friend at a machine shop turn the barrel on a lathe.




Here it is after paint, actually shooting a projectile (paper wrapped in duct tape). It made a good dent on the barrel. The other larger dent is from a neighbors cannon that shot a sock wrapped in tape.




This is the neighbors home-built cannon.... 2" heavy wall pipe with a plug. It knocked the barrel over.




This 15 pounds of tannerite (neighbor's son, home on leave from USAF doing the shooting).



45 pounds... the camera doesn't do it justice.....it shook a clock off my aunt's wall 500 yards away.
Yes...she was pissed.

Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Solus on January 06, 2017, 04:09:53 PM
I have thought of this for a while, and wondering if any of you warped children have as well:

What about filling an arrow shaft with powder and inserting a primer in the tip insert?

What happens?  Have thought of 3 possibilities...assuming the powder ignites..

1.  It acts like a torch burning what ever it is stuck in.
2.  It acts like a rocket and shoots the arrow back the way it came.
3.  It explodes with the arrow becoming shrapnel.

Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Majer on January 06, 2017, 06:01:40 PM
Back a bunch of years ago when I worked in a muffler shop,We made a tennis ball cannon out of exhaust pipe powered by Oxy/Acetylene it had a 24 inch barrel with a 4 inch gas chamber,was adjustable for elevation.First (and last) time we fired it off it snet a tennis ball about 10 blocks (we were in a small city)We lit the torch to get the correct mixture then shut the tanks off at the valve,the held the tip in the gas chamber and opened both valves at the same time.Then used the torch to light it.Made a real loud Whoomph and the ball was on it's way.we shut the doors and hid it before the police came around.Have no idea where it ended up but it was pretty cool.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: TAB on January 06, 2017, 09:03:42 PM
In my spud gun, we would put a packing peanut and gas in a tennis ball(makes crude napalm)   tape on striks amy where matchs and launch them.   Worked great at 13. 
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Sundance on January 07, 2017, 09:34:51 AM
Been a member for a long time lurking in the background. This thread got me laughing. As a youth I did many of these things "Just Experimenting". We called the cans taped together a "Polish Cannon" and could launch a tennis ball as high as a 7 story building. Made carbide cannons and a marble mortar out of copper pipe using firecrackers as the propellant. We also built balsa wood airplanes, remember the small string guided, motor powered  planes that you got dizzy flying in a circle. My one friend got a model bomber kit, it had a balsa wood bomb that hung on a hook in its belly. We found we could substitute a Cherry Bomb in it. We would start the engine, light a long fused cherry bomb and take off. We would do "bombing runs". Every now and then the "bomb" would not drop from the plane and we would need to build another. I also had an unlimited supply of railroad torpedoes, they exploded on contact. Had smoke stains on fences, walls and other things that got in there path. Never tried an arrow though. In today's world I would have been locked up before I was 10. ;D
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Timothy on January 07, 2017, 10:28:49 AM
Sundance, I expect that we have a healthy respect for things that go boom BECAUSE of our youthful experiences and rather dangerous experiments!

I was lucky to have many friends who were of a same mind!  We're all still kicking!

LOL

Post more, we're mostly harmless!
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 07, 2017, 12:48:38 PM
Another thought on the arrow.
If you screw a nipple into the end and put the cap on that there's a better chance it will go off.
 That's how Civil war era hand grenades worked.
If you use a magnesium arrow you might get one heck of a fire.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: PegLeg45 on January 07, 2017, 01:41:53 PM
In today's world I would have been locked up before I was 10. ;D

Yep....same here.



I have it on good authority that it takes exactly three (3) sticks of dynamite to lift one of those old-timey solidly built refrigerators approximately 15' straight up.

And one from my youthful Wile E. Coyote files:
If you fill a beach ball with the proper ratio of acetylene and oxygen, then suspend it from a tree just above a pint Mason jar with a candle in it...then, hold the ball as far back as you can while a friend lights the candle...and then throw the ball to swing in a circle like a tether-ball.....(while you run like scalded ape) ...... when the ball finally stops swinging over the candle that it will make quite a ruckus indeed.  8)
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 07, 2017, 02:39:12 PM
Thank God for the statute of limitations !  ;D
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Rastus on January 07, 2017, 04:46:55 PM
Thank God for the statute of limitations !  ;D

Yep.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 07, 2017, 05:43:28 PM
Majer reminded me of Saturday night acetylene balloons.  A pack of cheap balloons, some homemade fuse, and the oxy/acetylene tanks from the shop.

As we progressed through the fun and games, we learned that you could bundle the balloons together, think clown at the carnival, some with helium and some with o/a.  Your own airborne fun  ;D
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: TAB on January 07, 2017, 05:54:53 PM
we use to use hydrogen and a strip of towel in paint thinner( slowed down the burn)


a ballon the size of a greatfruit will get about 100' in the air and make a 5' fireball, best viewed at night.

I am just greatful that its not like today where every one has video camera in their pocket and puts stuff on the net.


the only video of me doing something really stupid was from college.   it was one of those min vhs you put in a bigger vhs to watch in a vcr.  it was us having a bottle rocket war in the house.  Large quantiys of booze were envoled.

I have said it time and time again.  I don't know any one growing up that did not commit several felonys.

yet I still have all my fingers, toes and eyes. 
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 08, 2017, 06:05:13 AM
we use to use hydrogen and a strip of towel in paint thinner( slowed down the burn)


a ballon the size of a greatfruit will get about 100' in the air and make a 5' fireball, best viewed at night.

I am just greatful that its not like today where every one has video camera in their pocket and puts stuff on the net.


the only video of me doing something really stupid was from college.   it was one of those min vhs you put in a bigger vhs to watch in a vcr.  it was us having a bottle rocket war in the house.  Large quantiys of booze were envoled.

I have said it time and time again.  I don't know any one growing up that did not commit several felonys.

yet I still have all my fingers, toes and eyes. 


Amazing isn't it ? We should all be stumbling around with hooks and eye patches.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: les snyder on January 08, 2017, 08:08:31 AM
after the Columbine Colorado school shooting I was on the committee to re-evaluate our school emergency management plan...I was the gun wacko, science teacher member of the committee...local LEO and Fire were in attendance, and we brainstormed our "worst case scenario".... at the time we still had unsecured oxyacetylene torches in the construction labs ... I used a small trash can liner's volume for the demonstration... they locked up the tanks before we adjourned the first meeting.....
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 08, 2017, 09:58:03 AM

Amazing isn't it ? We should all be stumbling around with hooks and eye patches.

Well, most of us aren't  ;)
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 08, 2017, 10:02:42 AM
One of the things missed by many in society, especially those trying to control and regulate us into submission, is that in a well functioning education system we come out knowing  things like how to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen, how to make methane, how to store and release (and multiply) energy (springs, weights, pulleys), ...

I'm not sure what all is being taught in science and shop these days, but for those of us that graduated in the 70's and prior, we were taught to be creative and how the world works.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Timothy on January 08, 2017, 11:33:57 AM
Yea, I was able to take machine shop, wood shop, small engine mechanics, electricity and electronics and a myriad of cooking classes while still taking the requisite classes to get into college!

My kid saw none of this!
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Rastus on January 08, 2017, 12:19:06 PM
One of the things missed by many in society, especially those trying to control and regulate us into submission, is that in a well functioning education system we come out knowing  things like how to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen, how to make methane, how to store and release (and multiply) energy (springs, weights, pulleys), ...

I'm not sure what all is being taught in science and shop these days, but for those of us that graduated in the 70's and prior, we were taught to be creative and how the world works.
Yea, I was able to take machine shop, wood shop, small engine mechanics, electricity and electronics and a myriad of cooking classes while still taking the requisite classes to get into college!

My kid saw none of this!

Now you know the NEA can't support that.  It fosters independence which is not to be tolerated in academia.  If people were taught how to take care of themselves where would that leave the social workers?  Have you no conscience for their wellbeing?

Not to mention if taught those things the students may actually be deluded into thinking that they don't need the government from cradle to grave.  The NEA can't support anything that smells of citizen independence from the government it could lead to massive defunding of our "very useful" educational employment complex.

You maroons...!   ::)

Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 08, 2017, 12:42:28 PM
Now you know the NEA can't support that.  It fosters independence which is not to be tolerated in academia.  If people were taught how to take care of themselves where would that leave the social workers?  Have you no conscience for their wellbeing?

Not to mention if taught those things the students may actually be deluded into thinking that they don't need the government from cradle to grave.  The NEA can't support anything that smells of citizen independence from the government it could lead to massive defunding of our "very useful" educational employment complex.

You maroons...!   ::)



After five years of hard work, my bride completed her undergrad work and then earned her Masters in Teaching (K-12 English Second Language).  A very valuable degree and license in our current situation.  She also racked up quite a bit of debt doing this, but landed a very good position locally.  Looked like a bright future.  Sadly, she has developed a serious medical condition that has forced her to step away from this career.  The bright side to medical issues and lost income to pay school loans?  No more union pressure from the NEA and MEA!  People talk about the NRA and its lobby and influence on members.  You ain't seen nothing until you've been a teacher and dealt with the NEA!  I was a member of the Teamsters when I was in high school (my only union shop, and I vowed never to go back), and the Teamsters have nothing in terms of power and intimidation on the NEA.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Rastus on January 08, 2017, 02:27:24 PM
Sorry about the medical issue.  My mom was a teacher and cannot stand the NEA. 

The NEA are a bunch of hateful people if you disagree with them.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: alfsauve on January 08, 2017, 03:47:25 PM
Ah, aerial bombardment.  Wondering when we'd get around to it.

Being totally bored, and living just upwind of a podunk USAF base one cold Illinois winter, we used lye and tin foil to inflate balloons with hydrogen.  Large balloons ;)   Some things they don't teach you even in school in our day:   While pure hydrogen burns colorless, kitchen sink hydrogen is very impure and gives off a bright yellow/orange flash.    Old fashion yellow "Scotch" tape isn't as good as cannon fuse, but will sustain a flame in a light breeze.   


Practical science, in and out of the classroom, kept many of us interested in our science courses.   Sadly, today, you cannot even buy  the items in the old Mr Wizzard's chemistry kits. 

Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 08, 2017, 05:20:58 PM
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, Chemistry sets!  My parents gave me the largest one right off the bat, and I went through many refills of chemical bottles ... Some more than others.

Sulfur was a very popular flavor in my room  ;D
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: PegLeg45 on January 08, 2017, 07:06:02 PM
OK...one more....MRE heaters.......when torn open and poured into a two liter coke bottle with a 1/4 cup of water will begin to build pressure after the cap is secured......until it makes a big BOOM.


Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Rastus on January 08, 2017, 07:17:33 PM
<snip>
Practical science, in and out of the classroom, kept many of us interested in our science courses.   Sadly, today, you cannot even buy  the items in the old Mr Wizzard's chemistry kits.

Really?  Hmmm....I dunno about that:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950s-Porter-Chemcraft-Chemistry-Combination-Lab-Set-No-2614-Vintage-Rare-VTG-/291993274919?hash=item43fc27ca27:g:iQsAAOSwjDZYb-gd (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950s-Porter-Chemcraft-Chemistry-Combination-Lab-Set-No-2614-Vintage-Rare-VTG-/291993274919?hash=item43fc27ca27:g:iQsAAOSwjDZYb-gd)
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 08, 2017, 09:38:01 PM
Really?  Hmmm....I dunno about that:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950s-Porter-Chemcraft-Chemistry-Combination-Lab-Set-No-2614-Vintage-Rare-VTG-/291993274919?hash=item43fc27ca27:g:iQsAAOSwjDZYb-gd (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950s-Porter-Chemcraft-Chemistry-Combination-Lab-Set-No-2614-Vintage-Rare-VTG-/291993274919?hash=item43fc27ca27:g:iQsAAOSwjDZYb-gd)

From the photos, my set was about the same size, but it was all chemistry.  I had a separate microscope kit.  And then there was the big Erector set that even without the electric motors and switches would send the bubble wrap crowd into convulsions today.

DAMN!!!  My childhood was a BLAST!
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Big Frank on January 08, 2017, 09:41:03 PM
OK...one more....MRE heaters.......when torn open and poured into a two liter coke bottle with a 1/4 cup of water will begin to build pressure after the cap is secured......until it makes a big BOOM.

Don't forget to empty one of the tiny bottles of Tabasco into it to make it into a chemical weapon.  ;)
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: Rastus on January 08, 2017, 10:13:22 PM
Dang good idea Frank...I never thought of that.

Mike, from time to time they have sets with more chemicals....things you cannot buy these days.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: alfsauve on January 09, 2017, 08:06:45 AM
Really?  Hmmm....I dunno about that:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950s-Porter-Chemcraft-Chemistry-Combination-Lab-Set-No-2614-Vintage-Rare-VTG-/291993274919?hash=item43fc27ca27:g:iQsAAOSwjDZYb-gd (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950s-Porter-Chemcraft-Chemistry-Combination-Lab-Set-No-2614-Vintage-Rare-VTG-/291993274919?hash=item43fc27ca27:g:iQsAAOSwjDZYb-gd)

Sorry that's an old used set in which the owner says most of the contents and chemicals are either missing or may not even work.   Try buying the replacement chemicals new OTC.
Title: Re: Artillery
Post by: billt on January 11, 2017, 06:27:31 AM
Years back in the 80's when I was living in Illinois, I bought a couple of those black powder .44 caliber cannons from Gander Mountain. They were working, firing guns. They took 3/32 waterproof cannon fuse, (the kind M-80's had). One 4th of July my neighbor and I were just sitting around getting hammered in the back yard. And since I had black powder, fuse, and .44 caliber balls, we decided it would be a good time to light it up. Being as there was a lot of noise in the neighborhood, we figured no one would pay attention to what we were doing.

I used an .38 Special case for a "dipper". The thing was as powerful as my .44 cap & ball revolver. We put an old pillow behind it to catch it from the recoil. We kept setting up pieces of that heavy black plastic lawn edging in a sand pile to test penetration. It went through a 2 X4 and 5 pieces of edging. And we still had to dig the ball out of the sand.

Traditions now makes a larger .50 caliber model that is Nickel plated. It's identical to both of mine but larger. I think I paid like $40.00 each for them at the time on a closeout. Now, like everything else, they're way more.

https://traditionsfirearms.com/product/Mini-old-ironsides