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Member Section => Reloading => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on January 25, 2015, 11:13:50 PM

Title: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 25, 2015, 11:13:50 PM
How many out there reload .40 S&W?

I am getting ready to start, because as I am sorting and cleaning brass I find that .40 S&W is by far my most shot round, except maybe the .22lr.

My question is if it is necessary to go through the step of a push through die for complete resizing, or if that is a fix for a limited issue?  I do have a single stage press, so I can do this with minimal expense and only time investment.

Experiences?
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: TAB on January 26, 2015, 01:52:50 AM
If the brass came from a glock 100% unless it has a high $ barrel.  Otherwise no.  Most guys I know won't use glockerized brass.  Straight to the scrap yatd.
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: alfsauve on January 26, 2015, 05:16:06 AM
For a couple of years I shot and reloaded .40SW and I used a chamber checker.  Resized a large batch of brass then ran them through the checker and threw out any that was enlarged.   I used an XD and never had a problem with my brass, but the checker was needed to check other people's brass.  Never used the push through die as I didn't find that many cases to warrant it.   I probably would have if I had kept on shooting 40.


(http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/410/588060.jpg)
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: tombogan03884 on January 26, 2015, 06:02:33 AM
If the brass came from a glock 100% unless it has a high $ barrel.  Otherwise no.  Most guys I know won't use glockerized brass.  Straight to the scrap yatd.

What is TAB referring to, and is it confined to only .40 cal or does it apply to all calibers ?

Alf, why toss the enlarged ones ? Why not just resize ?
 Was it rare enough to make resizing impractical ?
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: GASPASSERDELUXE on January 26, 2015, 10:47:30 AM
I use a "Case Master JR" from Magma Enginering. I use it for 9, 40 and 45. It is an arbor press set up with feed tubes and a feed device. can do 30 rds in about a minute. The major item is cost. I have had it for 7-8 years and with the 3 dies it was about $500. More now. It takes care of the problem quite well. If the type of sizer you were thinking about was available then I would have bought it instead.
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: TAB on January 26, 2015, 01:51:42 PM
What is TAB referring to, and is it confined to only .40 cal or does it apply to all calibers ?

Alf, why toss the enlarged ones ? Why not just resize ?
 Was it rare enough to make resizing impractical ?

Just the 40.  Using range brass, it is very common.
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: Solus on January 26, 2015, 03:57:40 PM
Found a bit of explanation.  None of this is mine.
 
I've read that because the Glock was originally designed for 9mm it doesn't do as well with the 40 S&W in regards to safety. The following is taken from Wikipedia, though I've sen the same basic information elsewhere on the internet.

"The .40 S&W has been noted in a number of cartridge case failures, particularly in older Glock pistols due to the relatively large area of unsupported case head in those barrels, given its high working pressure. The feed ramp on the Glock .40 S&W pistols are larger than normal, which leaves the rear bottom of the case unsupported, and it is in this unsupported area that the cases fail. Most, but not all, of the failures have occurred with reloaded or remanufactured ammunition. Cartridges loaded at or above the SAAMI pressure, or slightly oversized cases which fire slightly out of battery are often considered to be the cause of these failures."
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: TAB on January 26, 2015, 04:58:58 PM
https://www.firearmsforum.com/Firearms/ImageAlbum/90/10025quote author=Solus link=topic=30112.msg300996#msg300996 date=1422309460]
Found a bit of explanation.  None of this is mine.
 
I've read that because the Glock was originally designed for 9mm it doesn't do as well with the 40 S&W in regards to safety. The following is taken from Wikipedia, though I've sen the same basic information elsewhere on the internet.

"The .40 S&W has been noted in a number of cartridge case failures, particularly in older Glock pistols due to the relatively large area of unsupported case head in those barrels, given its high working pressure. The feed ramp on the Glock .40 S&W pistols are larger than normal, which leaves the rear bottom of the case unsupported, and it is in this unsupported area that the cases fail. Most, but not all, of the failures have occurred with reloaded or remanufactured ammunition. Cartridges loaded at or above the SAAMI pressure, or slightly oversized cases which fire slightly out of battery are often considered to be the cause of these failures."

[/quote]


,look at this picture

Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: ellis4538 on January 26, 2015, 06:54:57 PM
The push thru die for brass of unknown history is a must!  If you get a ptd make sure you use the lube they send along....makes things easier.  I cleaned all my brass before I realized I needed to ptd it.  After using the ptd I just put some of the brass on an old towel and rubbed most of the lube off.  Never have any problems with the lube contaminating the powder.  I bought a inexpensive Lee single station press to use the die in.  Also, get the attachment so that you can use a 2 liter pop bottle on top to catch the brass as it comes thru.  I cut a hole at the top (actually the bottom since it is installed upside down) of the bottle.  When it gets full unscrew it and the holder and empty it into a container.  I've been having trouble with 9mm also.  Will probably get an undersize die since they don't make a ptd for 9 mm.  FYI, I am using RCBS dies to reload.

Richard
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: alfsauve on January 26, 2015, 07:39:09 PM
Alf, why toss the enlarged ones ? Why not just resize ?
 Was it rare enough to make resizing impractical ?

I may be late in explaining this, but for those who want a short version.

The enlargement occurs in the web area, just above the groove.  This area doesn't fit in a normal sizing die, it's that twilight zone above the shell holder and just inside the base of the die.

Yes it occurs in 9mm, particularly when loaded to major power factor and shot in some guns.   The problem with 9mm is it is a tapered round so you can't have a "push through" die.   Most of my 9mm brass originally came from USPSA matches I sponsored, so a lot of it was affected.   I've weeded most of that out, but since I still take home range sweepings I keep testing the 9mm and still find a couple per thousand. 

For .40S&W, for me, it wasn't worth the die cost because I didn't find that many and by the time I was aware of the PTD I had decided to get out of .40 caliber anyway.
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: robert69 on January 27, 2015, 01:22:09 AM
When I first shot my glock 35, I had the glock bulge.  Not good, so I replaced the barrel with a KKM barrel.
Problem solved.
Redfield makes a push through die, but in the long run a replacement barrel is the answer.  It also shoots GREAT!.
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: MikeBjerum on January 27, 2015, 08:36:38 AM
Thanks for the feedback and information. 

I save my own brass, which is run through a custom Para P16.  However, there are the few range sweepings that get caught up in my policing, and at USPSA the range magnets grab everything they see.  Given the number of Glocks in .40 S&W out there I believe the cost of the Redding die and the time to run the cases through is cheap insurance against a jam.

I now return to my task of cleaning and packaging in prep for reloading.  Three calibers complete, and five to go.  This does not include the minor calibers that will wait, or hulls I have neglected over the past two years.
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: robert69 on March 06, 2015, 10:07:30 AM
I believe that I have posted this reply previously.
I had the problem with a Gen 3 model 35 glock.
I fixed the problem with a replacement kkm BARREL.  But I only reload MY brass.  I identify MY brass with a felt marker.  Then I can easily identify my brass when I pick it up. 
I do use a Wilson pistol max gauge to check the loaded rounds. I use the Lee crimper die as the final step in the reloading process before using the Wilson gauge.
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: Conagher 45 on April 20, 2015, 06:44:51 PM
I am on third reloads with Federal 40 S&W brass out of a gen 4 Glock 23. No problems so far but I am not loading max loads either.
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: ellis4538 on April 21, 2015, 05:15:37 PM
C45, as long as you are shooting them out of the same pistol time after time it shouldn't be a problem.  You might if you switch pistols.  Once I put my brass thru the push thru die I have no problems!  They actually size easier.

Richard
Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: Steve Cover on May 27, 2016, 04:09:15 AM
Just found this thread.
Hope I'm not too late to add my thoughts on the subject.

About 40 S&W Glocks:
The early Glocks in 40 S&W had a relieved feed ramp that left a small portion of the brass unsupported.
This is a common practice in Colt 1911s shooting 45 ACP ammunition.
Unfortunately, the 40 S&W is a 40,000 PSI round, not a low pressure 45.

There was a time when there were several blow ups using factory ammunition.
This sparked a huge rise in custom replacement barrels for these Glocks.

Naturally, Glock fixed the problem right away, but it was too late to save the 40 S&W reputation in future Glocks.

Here are a couple of pictures to show what I’m talking about.

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t175/SteveCover/K-Boom/Ka-Boom-Glock40003kk.jpg)
Notice where the case failed.

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t175/SteveCover/K-Boom/K-Boom-GlockM-3540Cal001.jpg)
Here is a better view showing where the case failed.

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t175/SteveCover/K-Boom/Ka-Boom-Glock40002kk-1.jpg)
Another view of the relieved feed ramp.

Note that these are very old pictures.
40 S&W Glocks no longer have this problem.

As far as reloading goes, my 40 S&W is a SIG 229. 
There has never had a problem with it.
I simply reload the brass that I’ve fired in it.
The vast majority of my reloads are into virgin brass or brass that has been fired in the 229.
The few times that I’ve acquired range brass, I have closely inspected it and run it through a Sinclair die to resize the base. 
This only needs to be done the first time.

Naturally, you should discard any brass of any cartridge if has a prominent bulge, but careful inspection and paying close attention to details should provide safe reloads for the 40 S&W.

Steve

Title: Re: .40 S&W Sizing
Post by: billt on September 10, 2016, 10:41:05 AM
The only pistol caliber capable of utilizing a "push through" die is the .40 S&W. This is because it is a straight walled, rimless case. The 9 MM and .45 ACP have a taper, so they cannot use a "push through" die.

That kaboom pictured was a gross overload. It would not have mattered if the barrel had a supported chamber or not. You can tell because you could park a minivan in the primer pocket. And the flash hole is blown out as well. He was undoubtedly drinking early after that.